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We are still a minority!!

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  • We are still a minority!!

    Working tonight and a family member of a patient turned out was an investment manager for another doctor group in town.  Got to talking for a bit and of course got to finance.  Conversation turned to education debt both current docs and also how he thinks this "is the next bubble."  We did talk about amount of debt for college and medical education.

    Shifted to talking about doctor spending and lifestyle and he really divulged the number of docs he has seen "with big houses and nice cars and have hardly anything to their name."  In other words severe negative net worth.   Yikes, just another reminder how I think saving and what a lot of those of us on these forums is focused on is really "the good life" and not all those driving around with super expensive cars and huge homes up to eyeballs in debt.  Its sad really.

    I wanted to mention WCI to him and tell him he should have his docs look it up, but being as he works for a large investment company (will remain unnamed) I didn't want him to start and argument.  Ha Ha.  Thanks White Coat, but sadly there are still so many docs and other professionals who need lots of help!

  • #2
    It's an insane practice to put your money into cars and houses, but a minor correction.  Those are still assets and count towards net worth, rather than creating extreme negative net worth.  In both cases they are poorly performing assets.  One devalues every year (car) while the other (home) is lucky to keep up with inflation but likely fails to do so when you tack on the associated costs of yearly taxes, realtor fees, etc.  But let's be honest, those docs probably don't see those things as asset investments regardless.  On the other hand, the opportunity cost in those situations is profoundly high.

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    • #3
      Good point ENT Doc.  I guess I should clarify a little more.  The conversation was along the lines of the types he was talking about were super spenders and was evidenced by their lavish homes, cars, etc.  You are right though I guess if you buy a $2 million dollar home (thats a ton where I live) you do have a big asset, but I also bet the upkeep is really pricey too.

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      • #4
        probably that guy should learn to keep his mouth shut if he likes his job

        having said that, i'm curious what he means by hardly anything to name and how much of their net worth he's aware of.

         

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        • #5
          I have had a similar conversation with a bank "wealth manager" about doc in my town.  She did not say the name but I knew who it was.  Outwardly very successful neurosurgeon but deeply in debt from "toys".  He recently sold his practice to the hospital and is an employee.  I think these money people like to talk.

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          • #6
            yes but if he's a manager for a group, and he is learned to have talked, especially in a potentially disparaging way, especially to a physician in another practice, the group might find someone else.

            that would be learning a lesson the hard way.

             

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            • #7




              I have had a similar conversation with a bank “wealth manager” about doc in my town.  She did not say the name but I knew who it was.  Outwardly very successful neurosurgeon but deeply in debt from “toys”.  He recently sold his practice to the hospital and is an employee.  I think these money people like to talk.
              Click to expand...


              That's pretty outrageous. Kind of like a doctor divulging private information about his/her patients.

              Just for the record, I would never compromise a client's privacy or share that an individual is a client. While I often use a planning experience to demonstrate a point, it is not in way that might link the example to a particular client, whether virtual or in our small town where everybody knows everybody else.
              Working to protect good doctors from bad advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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              • #8
                It would not surprise me if the actual majority of our population, even among "intelligent" people, hardly have any degree of financial knowledge. Although, even knowing isn't enough: you still have to want to apply it.

                I see the opinion fairly often: sure, I know I should be maxing my tax-advantaged accounts and not touch them until retirement, but dang it, I like nice things and I wanna go to Santorini. And that one lady rounds in Louboutins, and I wanna do that too. And sure, I should pay my student loans, but I can pay less if I do them over longer, and then I can lease that AMG I wanted...and hey, Chase gave me a $35,000 limit on my credit card that I only have to pay a little at a time, and...I know it's all bad, but it's okay, I can afford it, right?

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                • #9
                  So it's clear this person was not really divulging anything about docs by name or any individual specifics. Rather generalities of what he had experienced over the years. It seemed clear he represented lots of different people and examples weren't tied to one person or group. Most of it was passing comments not really on the order of " Let me tell you about so and so ..." Especially as we had touched on spending as a factor of determining wealth. It didn't strike me as unprofessional in the least.

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                  • #10




                    So it’s clear this person was not really divulging anything about docs by name or any individual specifics. Rather generalities of what he had experienced over the years. It seemed clear he represented lots of different people and examples weren’t tied to one person or group. Most of it was passing comments not really on the order of ” Let me tell you about so and so …” Especially as we had touched on spending as a factor of determining wealth. It didn’t strike me as unprofessional in the least.
                    Click to expand...


                    Sorry, I was referring to @ hatton1's comment, not yours. There was nothing out of bounds with the conversation your patient's family member had with you.
                    Working to protect good doctors from bad advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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                    • #11
                      Actually she did not know that I knew who it was.  I was familiar with the guys "toys" that she mentioned as an example why some doctors are in bad shape despite a million plus yearly income.

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                      • #12
                        There's no HIPAA in financial services, although it is certainly unethical.

                        But yea, we're a minority and all you have to do is talk to a few docs to realize it.
                        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

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                        • #13




                          It would not surprise me if the actual majority of our population, even among “intelligent” people, hardly have any degree of financial knowledge. Although, even knowing isn’t enough: you still have to want to apply it.

                           
                          Click to expand...


                          I just saw a study that said half of American's live paycheck to paycheck. That's half the population on the verge of financial catastrophe the next month after a job loss.

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                          • #14
                            We got a young NP in our practice driving around a mercedes AMG (doesn't reveal what the model is, but does mention "AMG).
                            -I haven't seen much discussion at overspending by midlevels. Particularly painful when you are supervising them.

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                            • #15
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