Too Frugal? - New Car

[Fugue]

Developing expensive taste 1 year out of residency does not bode well, even if you have no loans. Do you have a house or planning to get one?

I understand what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think this kind of blanket generalization works well because it’s so dependent person to person.

I was in a similar position to the OP. Ended up buying a sports car (less money than OP) after my debts were gone about 2 years out of residency and saving over half my take home pay. Ended up buying my first house later on for <1x. Haven’t had a single splurge other than the car.

This is a pet peeve of mine. This forum, and others, skew heavily towards spending money on experiences. Everyone is always in favor of spending five figures on vacations, but when it comes to a car it’s seen as a foolish purchase and a gateway to bigger spending.

The simplest answer is this - save what you need to for retirement, more if you would like freedom earlier, and then spend the rest on what you deem to improve your quality of life. I would not recommend leasing, I think that’s foolish, but if you can afford the car you will be able to pay in cash.

[VentAlarm]

I understand what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think this kind of blanket generalization works well because it’s so dependent person to person.

I was in a similar position to the OP. Ended up buying a sports car (less money than OP) after my debts were gone about 2 years out of residency and saving over half my take home pay. Ended up buying my first house later on for <1x. Haven’t had a single splurge other than the car.

This is a pet peeve of mine. This forum, and others, skew heavily towards spending money on experiences. Everyone is always in favor of spending five figures on vacations, but when it comes to a car it’s seen as a foolish purchase and a gateway to bigger spending.

The simplest answer is this - save what you need to for retirement, more if you would like freedom earlier, and then spend the rest on what you deem to improve your quality of life. I would not recommend leasing, I think that’s foolish, but if you can afford the car you will be able to pay in cash.

That is because the data clearly supports long-term happiness is much higher with the purchase or experience. And the happiness one gets from a car is usually fleeting. How is it a pet peeve for someone to recommend something in someone’s best interest?

Also, show me a post where everyone tells someone to spend $80k on a vacation. This is an unfair comparison. Someone spending $10-20k for a vacation with family vs. 80k on a sports car that is admitted unnecessary are drastically different.

[CordMcNally]

This is a pet peeve of mine. This forum, and others, skew heavily towards spending money on experiences. Everyone is always in favor of spending five figures on vacations, but when it comes to a car it’s seen as a foolish purchase and a gateway to bigger spending.

In addition to what VentAlarm said, it's hard to really enjoy a sports car for the reasons most people buy them unless you're routinely taking it to a track. It's hard to push a car to its handling limits on public roads and it's tough to really get that true quarter mile thrill on a public road.

[Kamban]

I understand what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think this kind of blanket generalization works well because it’s so dependent person to person.

I was in a similar position to the OP. Ended up buying a sports car (less money than OP) after my debts were gone about 2 years out of residency and saving over half my take home pay. Ended up buying my first house later on for <1x. Haven’t had a single splurge other than the car.

This is a pet peeve of mine. This forum, and others, skew heavily towards spending money on experiences. Everyone is always in favor of spending five figures on vacations, but when it comes to a car it’s seen as a foolish purchase and a gateway to bigger spending.

The simplest answer is this - save what you need to for retirement, more if you would like freedom earlier, and then spend the rest on what you deem to improve your quality of life. I would not recommend leasing, I think that’s foolish, but if you can afford the car you will be able to pay in cash.

It is OK, it worked out well for you. But for the 99.9% of people who make huge purchases as soon as they get the big bucks of attendinghood, the course is usually one of gradually spending more and more because the thought process is -I am earning more, I have delayed my gratification and hence I have to act on it.

Sometimes a bit of frugality early on can help temper it and should there be a hiccup in earnings later on ( remember the COVID income cuts some people here had) or needing to quit because the job is toxic, you are not tied to that 20% rule since you have saved a bit more early on.

Besides the OP never posted about the other part of his fiances - home, retirement savings, emergency fund etc. Those are more important and relevant than a 80K sports car.

Finally, at the end the day it is only a piece of metal. I thing that most agree that experiences are more valuable than material things and if the OP had said about taking a 10K vacation, I might be supporting him if other ducks are in a row.

This forum is not anti car, but more of group therapy to ground people to reality about their finances.

[Nysoz]

That is because the data clearly supports long-term happiness is much higher with the purchase or experience. And the happiness one gets from a car is usually fleeting. How is it a pet peeve for someone to recommend something in someone’s best interest?

Also, show me a post where everyone tells someone to spend $80k on a vacation. This is an unfair comparison. Someone spending $10-20k for a vacation with family vs. 80k on a sports car that is admitted unnecessary are drastically different.

Every person and situation is different. No one knows how another person feels about material possessions or experiences. This person doesn’t have family or kids so can’t really splurge on that. Depending on the car, it may keep up value and bring them joy for years. After 2 years I still love getting in my Tesla and driving around.

On the flip side we’ve spent extra money on upgraded plane seats or great food. These are even more of a waste of money than the car since it’s like double the price for a few hours of comfort and all food turns into the same poop anyways. Sure that $300 wagyu steak with foie gras was amazing for the 15 minutes it took to eat. Now I have the memory of it being great but can’t experience the taste again unless I want to splurge again.

Everyone has different priorities in life. Maybe they’ll get enjoyment out of just hearing that engine roar (or complete silence of an ev) every day.

So save that 20% towards retirement to pay your future self then figure out personal priorities. Life is short so you still have to enjoy it whichever way makes you happy.

[Kamban]

I've always wanted a sports car (70-80k MSRP)

If you have been reading anything automotive, you will be seeing a trend of many car manufacturers going electric (EV). This started in mid-range vehicles and is now moving in the upscale / luxury version and the sports car. Porsche has gotten into it with Taycan and other sports car manufacturers are announcing EV models every day.

So take this into consideration if you are buying a gasoline high end sports car. When the time comes to sell in 7-10 years you might not only take a bath on depreciation that normally occurs in this market but that your pool of potential buyers would have shrunk because most will be migrating EV and want nothing to do with ICE vehicles.

[Random1]

That is because the data clearly supports long-term happiness is much higher with the purchase or experience. And the happiness one gets from a car is usually fleeting. How is it a pet peeve for someone to recommend something in someone’s best interest?

I bought my fair share (whatever that is) of big boy toys early in my career. Driving 90 to get a gallon of milk never seemed to get old. But I think experiences definitely create more long term happiness especially if you have someone to enjoy them with, especially for me.

[VentAlarm]

Every person and situation is different. No one knows how another person feels about material possessions or experiences. This person doesn’t have family or kids so can’t really splurge on that. Depending on the car, it may keep up value and bring them joy for years. After 2 years I still love getting in my Tesla and driving around.

On the flip side we’ve spent extra money on upgraded plane seats or great food. These are even more of a waste of money than the car since it’s like double the price for a few hours of comfort and all food turns into the same poop anyways. Sure that $300 wagyu steak with foie gras was amazing for the 15 minutes it took to eat. Now I have the memory of it being great but can’t experience the taste again unless I want to splurge again.

Everyone has different priorities in life. Maybe they’ll get enjoyment out of just hearing that engine roar (or complete silence of an ev) every day.

So save that 20% towards retirement to pay your future self then figure out personal priorities. Life is short so you still have to enjoy it whichever way makes you happy.

I think you’re misinterpreting what I said, or maybe I just wasn’t clear. My initial post was that it’s ok to buy it if he’s saving 20%. It’s not frugal, and probably a relatively poor decision, but it’s not crazy. I wouldn’t do it and I think it’s not necessarily wise, but it’s not crazy. I also mentioned how it’s different if it’s an impulse because he’s got $20k in his checking and crunched the numbers on a monthly payment vs. he has 80k in the bank and had a picture of this car over his bed since he was in high school.

My above comment was in response to the above poster saying his pet peeve was peoples advice skewing towards experiences over stuff. That’s a really silly thing to say. I’m not saying never buy nice stuff, just that it’s a somewhat ridiculous thing to suggest that it irritates you when a frugality minded forum suggests spending money on things that have been shown to more greatly influence your happiness. Experiences over stuff is a great rule of thumb, but, like all rules of thumb, isn’t a hard and fast law.

[xraygoggles]

Hi all,

I've always wanted a sports car (70-80k MSRP) and thought of making it a treat to myself when I would be able to afford it.
I'm struggling to justify getting the car because of 0 need for it. I'm 1 year out of residency working in major northeast city with plenty of public transportation/walkability.
Work is a 20 min walk and in bad weather ride sharing is available typically in less than 5 minutes for a short commute.
Added benefits = 0 stress of parking/accidents/repairs/insurance/parking ($350/month).

Lease - $800-900/mo + parking $350/mo + Gas + Insurance = ~ $1500
Ride share daily RT $12x2x30 = $720

Annual - ~400k and no loans.
I'm in my early 30's and no dependents.
The question is - just splurge and enjoy it or continue to aggressively save and follow the math/numbers

Yes, definitely get the car.

I got an M3 less than three months into attendinghood, with much larger student loan burden but similar pay. No regrets. You have no dependents or debt, and high stable salary, why wouldn't you get it? It's not even yolo spending at this point, more like treating yourself for being prudent with the rest of your finances (assuming you save 20% retirement etc).

[Turf Doc]

things can be experiences depending on how you personally interact with them. ive worn raw denim for the past 10 years, jeans are a "thing" yet they're also an experience for me. they cost a lot but i get a lot of joy out of just putting on my freaking pants in the morning, and have for the last decade. I think the point is to make sure that the things you're buying actually do bring you joy, AND that you can afford it.

Your situation doesn't sound great for the sports car even assuming you can afford it (whats the rest of your budget look like btw?). I would rent something cool on the weekends and reevaluate after a year or so

[VentAlarm]

things can be experiences depending on how you personally interact with them. ive worn raw denim for the past 10 years, jeans are a "thing" yet they're also an experience for me. they cost a lot but i get a lot of joy out of just putting on my freaking pants in the morning, and have for the last decade. I think the point is to make sure that the things you're buying actually do bring you joy, AND that you can afford it.

Your situation doesn't sound great for the sports car even assuming you can afford it (whats the rest of your budget look like btw?). I would rent something cool on the weekends and reevaluate after a year or so

I think you’re just doing mental to gymnastics to explain that you get some joy out of things, too. That’s fine, but that doesn’t make the jeans somehow an experience.

[JBME]

I understand what you’re trying to say, but I don’t think this kind of blanket generalization works well because it’s so dependent person to person.

I was in a similar position to the OP. Ended up buying a sports car (less money than OP) after my debts were gone about 2 years out of residency and saving over half my take home pay. Ended up buying my first house later on for <1x. Haven’t had a single splurge other than the car.

This is a pet peeve of mine. This forum, and others, skew heavily towards spending money on experiences. Everyone is always in favor of spending five figures on vacations, but when it comes to a car it’s seen as a foolish purchase and a gateway to bigger spending.

The simplest answer is this - save what you need to for retirement, more if you would like freedom earlier, and then spend the rest on what you deem to improve your quality of life. I would not recommend leasing, I think that’s foolish, but if you can afford the car you will be able to pay in cash.

Couple of points/responses:
1) The blanket generalization does work because it is true in the aggregate. There are exceptions to every rule. Most people who upgrade their lifestyle continue to do so. A one-time car purchase then becomes a justification for another pricey thing.

2) No idea what your debts were but if you cleared your student loans within 2 years out of residency and saved over half your take home pay, you personally I agree deserve a car. Because you are doing so much right. You are the exception rather than the norm. There are many exceptions (including probably most forum members here) but very broadly speaking, we're the exceptions. Lots of people don't like broccoli. But I'm certain we can find plenty of people who are exceptions and do.

3) The forum does not skew heavily on spending experiences. The forum skews on spending purposefully on what you enjoy. Prioritize what you enjoy and spend heavily on that. If the OP is a car person, the OP should buy the car. If the OP also loves to travel and wants/loves to have a big family and loves to spend money on boats too, then there might be a problem. If the OP buys a car, the OP is saying that is more important than travel or a boat or something else. And that is okay! But OP can't have everything.

4) totally agree with your last sentence

[Turf Doc]

I think you’re just doing mental to gymnastics to explain that you get some joy out of things, too. That’s fine, but that doesn’t make the jeans somehow an experience.

Experience definition: "an event or occurrence that leaves an impression on someone.". Jeans are a thing of course, but the reason I enjoy them is because they provide an experience as they age and wear differently. In some ways it's like art. Yeah a painting is a thing, but it can also leave an impression on someone and make them feel a certain way, kind of like an "experience." A car is a thing, but driving it can be an experience, depending on if if you actually enjoy driving.

If you don't give two craps about jeans or driving it would be stupid to spend more money than necessary on them. But I do think that everyone gets enjoyment out of something that others can't understand, and that enjoyment often requires buying a "thing"

[VentAlarm]

Experience definition: "an event or occurrence that leaves an impression on someone.". Jeans are a thing of course, but the reason I enjoy them is because they provide an experience as they age and wear differently. In some ways it's like art. Yeah a painting is a thing, but it can also leave an impression on someone and make them feel a certain way, kind of like an "experience." A car is a thing, but driving it can be an experience, depending on if if you actually enjoy driving.

If you don't give two craps about jeans or driving it would be stupid to spend more money than necessary on them. But I do think that everyone gets enjoyment out of something that others can't understand, and that enjoyment often requires buying a "thing"

If your jeans provide an experience as they age and wear that you compare to art, I am confident we shop at different clothing stores…

[Turf Doc]

If your jeans provide an experience as they age and wear that you compare to art, I am confident we shop at different clothing stores…

i usually buy my stuff online and/or "used". cheaper that way