Any Kaiser (TPMG) docs here?

[fatlittlepig]

well that's assuming you're investing the 40K in the market, which is not necessarily the case in most instances.

[Tim]

well that's assuming you're investing the 40K in the market, which is not necessarily the case in most instances.

Sounds like a "should be investing 40K in the market" at that point.

[Bthom86]

Hello fellow TPMGers

I have read through this entire thread and love the content that has been posted. I also work for TPMG and up for partnership this summer. I would love to get the group's input on the Class C share purchase.

Currently, the max price for class C shares stands at $118,490. My spouse and I are in a position to purchase all the shares ($158,490) from our savings from a brokerage account. It's clear to me that no one knows how the sausage is made in how TPMG provides a ~10% return on these shares. I am fairly early in my career and worry that TPMG won't be able to provide a 10% return 20+ years from now on an illiquid asset. No way to predict this but I imagine there is a ceiling to how much the cost of the shares can raise and what a reasonable doctor would pay to buy in. So what would you do...

1) Buy the max amount of shares (~$159k)
2) Buy the min amount of shares ($40k) and forego class C
3) Split the difference somehow

Thanks

Thank you all for the great advice. One last question to the partners in the space.

Does the March incentive payment change whether you buy the minimum amount versus the maximum amount of shares?

[wally world]

Thank you all for the great advice. One last question to the partners in the space.

Does the March incentive payment change whether you buy the minimum amount versus the maximum amount of shares?

Nope. You'll get the full amount just buying the required A/B shares without any of the optional C shares. However, the payment is prorated based on your unit schedule (ie if you are 8/10, the incentive payment is 80% of what you would have received working a full 10/10 schedule).

[fart_bubbles]

Considering a TPMG offer and on reading the SPD for Plan 3, it states that the "maximum after-tax contribution for 2021 is $16,640", which is a surprise as I haven't seen this number mentioned in this thread. Does this preclude maxing out a mega backdoor Roth (assuming the difference is not met by Plan 2) or am I missing something?

[ROdoc13]

Considering a TPMG offer and on reading the SPD for Plan 3, it states that the "maximum after-tax contribution for 2021 is $16,640", which is a surprise as I haven't seen this number mentioned in this thread. Does this preclude maxing out a mega backdoor Roth (assuming the difference is not met by Plan 2) or am I missing something?

The $16,640 (from 2021) refers to after-tax contributions that you can make (in excess of the normal pre-tax max), and that $16,640 can be converted to Roth through Mega Backdoor Roth via in-plan conversion.

For 2022, the IRS cap on total 401K contributions is $61,000 (unless age 50+, where you get an extra $6,500). At TPMG, you can do the following:

1) Contribute the regular employee maximum of $20,500 (plan 3); most will do this pre-tax, but can also be Roth contribution if you wish.

2) TPMG will contribute 5% for the first $147,000 of earnings, and 10% of the next $158,000 in earnings. So, if you make at least $305,000, TPMG will contribute a total of $23,150 to your 401K in 2022. The employer contribution vests over 5 years (1 year = 10%, 2 year = 30%, 3 year = 50%, 4 year = 70%, and 5 year+ = 100%). (Plan 2).

3) Assuming you do above, you will have another $17,350 that can be contributed on an after tax basis to the 401K to reach the $61,000 ceiling. Fidelity allows you to enroll in an automatic Roth in-plan conversion for these dollars; each day, the plan with automatically sweep any "after tax" dollars into Roth. I happen to just auto-contribute with each paycheck for this to max this annually.

For individuals who make >$305,000, TPMG provides a "Plan 2 Make-up Payment" once annually around September. This payment = 10% of your salary above $305,000, for a maximum make-up of $17,350 total payment (in other words, in order to reach the maximum payment, your salary must be at least $478,500 annually; you will not get a higher Make-up payment if you make >478,500). This make-up payment is taxed, however (basically looks like an extra paycheck). So if you receive the make-up payment, expect it to be 40+% less due to taxes, depending on your tax with-holding. If you don't want to auto-contribute for the after-tax contributions as in (3) above, you can make an after tax contribution with these make-up funds once received through Fidelity.

Hope this helps.

[The_Heat]

I apologize if this has been discussed elsewhere in this thread, but regarding plan 3: can anyone here make a strong argument for doing this after tax?

That's how I initially set up my contributions, because at the time I was trying to be conservative and thought I'd just take the hit now while I know what it is and that I can afford it. But lately I've been considering changing to before-tax, because in the long run that seems to have the highest chance of netting more money. I'm almost certain that I will have a lower income in retirement than now and that if I move for retirement it will be to a state with lower state income tax.

Am I missing anything more to this decision?

I should add that I am also maximizing the back door roth.

[CalMD]

Plan 1 and Plan 2 are already pre-tax, so I would contribute after tax to Plan 3. Depending on your current salary, age, saving rate and retirement locale (Washington or Hawaii?) the tax rate with RMD and SS may still be quite high.

If there is extra, consider non-qualified plan to further defer tax and also taxable brokerage account.

[AR]

Couldn't think of a better place to post this, so I'll ask here. I've got a friend (just about to graduate) who was looking around for a full time ER job and said that the best offer financially was from the norcal Kaiser (by far). Anyone have a ball park for what they offer?

He ended up taking a job on the East Cost for ~400K? Does Kaiser offer starting ER docs a lot more than that?

[TBDMD]

No, its less than that and its based on a 40 hour work week which most ED docs would say is an unrealisically high number of shifts to work. On an hourly basis the pay is quite low. Hes likely overvaluing the benefit package and underestimating the amount of leverage those benefits give your employer over you.

[fatlittlepig]

No, its less than that and its based on a 40 hour work week which most ED docs would say is an unrealisically high number of shifts to work. On an hourly basis the pay is quite low. Hes likely overvaluing the benefit package and underestimating the amount of leverage those benefits give your employer over you.

I think it’s hard to overvalue a benefits package that includes a pension amongst other things.

[AR]

No, its less than that and its based on a 40 hour work week which most ED docs would say is an unrealisically high number of shifts to work. On an hourly basis the pay is quite low. Hes likely overvaluing the benefit package and underestimating the amount of leverage those benefits give your employer over you.

Thanks. Now that you mention it, he wouldn't stop talking about pension. I think he placed a very high value on that. Was it inappropriately high? Hard for me to say, I don't know the numbers.

[TBDMD]

The benefit package is worth about 1/3 of total compensation from what Ive been told. It is very possible to make 1/3 more at another job. In that case you can make your own pension if you think thats so valuable… and you 100% control it

[AR]

The benefit package is worth about 1/3 of total compensation from what Ive been told. It is very possible to make 1/3 more at another job. In that case you can make your own pension if you think thats so valuable… and you 100% control it

Thanks. If what you are saying is true, then Kaiser would only have to have offered him only $300K for that to have been financially better than the $400K he ended up taking (all else being equal, which is probably isn't). Surely they offer more than that? What's the starting salary for a Kaiser starting EM doc these days?

It also sounds like you are saying that there are jobs out there that offer even more than $400K starting, which would be even better. This guy was somewhat geographically constrained. He was only going where either his family lived or his wife's family lived.

[StarTrekDoc]

There was a healthy debate on this at the recent orthopedics conference I attended. Seems like a big contention between the two in the Ortho circles as their dollars are so much more impacted compared to primary care.

The biggest counterpoint from private practice is exactly.mentioned, one can overproduce to match pension and no golden handcuffs

The biggest point to corporate was no huge pressure to be ever present and there is a sunset for age, allowing even forcing ways to retirement and allows for glidepathe vs all or none .

This was emphasized even more at the luncheon for those nearing retirement. All the folk with little or no plans or who voiced struggling with retirement came from the private practice side.

Their identity was so locked into their practice, it became a trap in itself.