Are you in the top 1%

[Live Free MD]

TheHappyPhilosopher wrote:

Striving to be in the top 1% or whatever is a multi-player competitive game. We are trying to win (even if we are doing so subconsciously). These are external validations of “success”. We really do this all the time with grasping for better stuff, more prestige, etc. But happiness, contentment and life satisfaction is a single player game. We don’t have to compete with anyone to be happy. We don’t have to compare or be jealous. I’ve noticed that the happiest people I know have opted out of the multi-player games. They use internal metrics.

This is what all those wealth/happiness studies miss. Accumulating wealth is fine, there is a certain security and freedom that come with it. I play the game too, but the real way to “win” is to realize we are all insanely rich. Once you hit 7 figures you can for all practical purposes live a modest life on this planet forever without having to ever trade your time for money again. Above 3-4 mil and you are able to live a life of obscene luxury that the vast majority of humans that have ever lived can not even imagine.

By re-framing the thought process like this 1% ceases to matter.

 

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Exactly.  Our goals should be internal and independent of anyone else's goals.  Moreover, our goals should not just be about money, but about what we want to accomplish in life.  That's really what matters, isn't it?

[RogueDadMD]

WealthyDoc wrote:

Rogue Dad, M.D. wrote:

I’m in the top 1% of life because I enjoy my job.

I won’t be FIRE in my 40’s. but with good health I don’t need to be.

While I am not top 1% of income (and never will be), and I don’t feel rich, that’s partly because I don’t want to spend like I am “rich” (recognizing that even my frugal approach is wasteful to 95% of the world or any devoted MMM follower).

We have started loosening our purse strings to enjoy ourselves. Anniversary trip to NYC and the Hamptons (lots of reward points subsidizing parts of it). Taking trip to Europe with my wife this summer (also subsidized with reward points).

Taking trips like that makes me feel top 1% even if my cash outlay is a little lower than others doing the same trip. Paying a few hundred $ for my kids birthday party made me feel rich (and wasteful), given how many families I interact with who could never do that.

I’ll never be monetarily rich by the standards on this forum, but I’ll be privileged enough to enjoy my life in a way that 99% of the world never will.

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Very wise.

I started thinking more about this issue after my kids asked, “Are we rich?”  It was a simple question but I wasn’t sure how I should answer.  I don’t want them to be spoiled and we are not exactly the kids of Sam Walton.  We are in the top 0.15% world wide though.  I assume you would say, yes …. and here is what I mean by that?

Here are some of my thoughts if interested: http://wealthydoc.com/blog/how-rich-are-you

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Great question.  This question has recently come up in our house with our eldest (8 years old).

Last year we moved from our 100 year old house in the city (4br2ba,  1800 sq ft that felt tiny because of the layout) into a home nearly double the size with tons of open space and an actual yard (previously only had a few rocks in the backyard and postsage stamp front yard).  The new place is not a textbook McMansion, but it's a nice home in the 'burbs, and it's the first real outward display of wealth we've ever had/shown (unless you count driving a Kia with a heated steering wheel).  The house is in our budget and frankly on the low end of what a lot of attending physicians buy, but still more than I want to pay.  

A few times since moving our son has made comments about mansions and how he would like to live in one.  My wife and I have essentially told him while our house may not qualify as a mansion, a lot of people would consider our house a mansion, and that he needs to know that our entire family is in a very fortunate position that many other people are not (including friends from his old school/neighborhood).  The point being not to emphasize our monetary wealth, but to try to get him to understand that he needs to perceive his current position as actually better off than many others he meets and many other kids/families around the world.  We told him for the first time last week the price of our new home; I don't think he could even comprehend the number, and some of these discussions/lessons definitely have not sunk in yet.

We're fairly strict about not buying anything expensive or unnecessary for him (random toys or whatever pops into his head) to make sure he understands that a dollar spent on things he doesn't need is a dollar taken away from things that are more important.  We occasionally let him his own spend saved up holiday/birthday money on those things but we don't buy them ourselves, though Santa and mom/dad usually bring him one nice gift and a bunch of random smaller gifts at Christmas.  We do have him put some of the money he gets towards charities and some towards his own college savings, while letting him spend some of it on whatever he wants (on occasion and with our agreement).

The point of all this being we try to emphasize that he doesn't get to spend mom and dad's money -- just because he wants something doesn't mean he gets it (usually he doesn't).  If he really wants something then he has to earn it and save for it himself.  And while he might get the impression we're not "rich" because we constantly tell him we aren't buying him things because it's a bad use of money or too expensive, it's because we consider it a poor use of our money, not because we are  "poor" in any traditional sense of the word.

Though we just signed him up tonight for some fancy-pants summer camp, and holy cow, it's no wonder I don't want to buy him a robot dog.  All my money is going to a robotics camp instead...

[WealthyDoc]

Rogue Dad, M.D. wrote:

I’m in the top 1% of life because I enjoy my job.

I won’t be FIRE in my 40’s. but with good health I don’t need to be.

While I am not top 1% of income (and never will be), and I don’t feel rich, that’s partly because I don’t want to spend like I am “rich” (recognizing that even my frugal approach is wasteful to 95% of the world or any devoted MMM follower).

We have started loosening our purse strings to enjoy ourselves. Anniversary trip to NYC and the Hamptons (lots of reward points subsidizing parts of it). Taking trip to Europe with my wife this summer (also subsidized with reward points).

Taking trips like that makes me feel top 1% even if my cash outlay is a little lower than others doing the same trip. Paying a few hundred $ for my kids birthday party made me feel rich (and wasteful), given how many families I interact with who could never do that.

I’ll never be monetarily rich by the standards on this forum, but I’ll be privileged enough to enjoy my life in a way that 99% of the world never will.

Click to expand...

Very wise.

I started thinking more about this issue after my kids asked, "Are we rich?"  It was a simple question but I wasn't sure how I should answer.  I don't want them to be spoiled and we are not exactly the kids of Sam Walton.  We are in the top 0.15% world wide though.  I assume you would say, yes .... and here is what I mean by that?

Here are some of my thoughts if interested: http://wealthydoc.com/blog/how-rich-are-you

[RogueDadMD]

I'm in the top 1% of life because I enjoy my job.

I won't be FIRE in my 40's. but with good health I don't need to be.

While I am not top 1% of income (and never will be), and I don't feel rich, that's partly because I don't want to spend like I am "rich" (recognizing that even my frugal approach is wasteful to 95% of the world or any devoted MMM follower).

We have started loosening our purse strings to enjoy ourselves. Anniversary trip to NYC and the Hamptons (lots of reward points subsidizing parts of it). Taking trip to Europe with my wife this summer (also subsidized with reward points).

Taking trips like that makes me feel top 1% even if my cash outlay is a little lower than others doing the same trip. Paying a few hundred $ for my kids birthday party made me feel rich (and wasteful), given how many families I interact with who could never do that.

I'll never be monetarily rich by the standards on this forum, but I'll be privileged enough to enjoy my life in a way that 99% of the world never will.

[Raddoc123]

Once I hit 7 figures in assets and paid off house, my life and job happiness has shot up dramatically.  I know that I will be ok for the rest of my life, even if I have to leave medicine and do something else or cut back dramatically.  I look around at some of my colleagues with big expensive houses and no concept of finance, and am very happy with my choices (even though I may not look as successful to outsiders).

[uptoolate]

Had 10 great income years out of 30 and a relatively frugal lifestyle.  Was in the 1% for income for all but the resident/fellowship years I think and networth in the 1% by 50 which seemed good with me.  Retired from clinical at 52 and now just do the things that I find fun.  It seems to me that doctors do pretty well in terms of income and job security/mobility.  As pointed out, money isn't everything but I sure don't mind having it. I could have continued another 10 or 15 years if I had wanted to hit 25+ million at an age that I could still 'enjoy' it but what would the point be (in my mind).  As it stands I will have to wait to 80s to hit that mark unless the world explodes.  I have always found it eye opening to spend time in low resource settings and see just how happy people can be with what seems like very little in the way of money or material goods.

[TheHappyPhilosopher]

Striving to be in the top 1% or whatever is a multi-player competitive game. We are trying to win (even if we are doing so subconsciously). These are external validations of "success". We really do this all the time with grasping for better stuff, more prestige, etc. But happiness, contentment and life satisfaction is a single player game. We don't have to compete with anyone to be happy. We don't have to compare or be jealous. I've noticed that the happiest people I know have opted out of the multi-player games. They use internal metrics.

This is what all those wealth/happiness studies miss. Accumulating wealth is fine, there is a certain security and freedom that come with it. I play the game too, but the real way to "win" is to realize we are all insanely rich. Once you hit 7 figures you can for all practical purposes live a modest life on this planet forever without having to ever trade your time for money again. Above 3-4 mil and you are able to live a life of obscene luxury that the vast majority of humans that have ever lived can not even imagine.

By re-framing the thought process like this 1% ceases to matter.

 

[TheHappyPhilosopher]

Vagabond MD wrote:

FIREshrink wrote:

This suggests you need almost $8,000,000 to be in the top 1% as of 2013. Probably higher now in 2017.

 

https://dqydj.com/net-worth-in-the-united-states-zooming-in-on-the-top-centiles/

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Gosh, I was happy earlier, and now I am sad.

Can someone research how fast a 50ish year old needs to run a 10k or half marathon to be among the most fit? I would like to be in the top 1% of SOMETHING.

Click to expand...

Here is an age graded race time calculator. Enter your age, gender, distance and time and see how you match up.

http://www.heartbreakhill.org/age_graded.htm

[CM]

hightower wrote:

Only if its getting in the way of you being in the present moment  Tolle’s philosophy is really interesting, but it takes some time to really grasp what he’s saying.  I just brought that up here because its so fresh in my mind.

Click to expand...

Eckhart Tolle quotes:

Realize deeply that the present moment is all you ever have.

What a liberation to realize that the “voice in my head” is not who I am. Who am I then? The one who sees that.

Life is the dancer and you are the dance.

Still grasping... :-)

[Zaphod]

Kamban wrote:

hatton1 wrote:

Sorry WCI if I made you think by my comment that I did not feel rich you thought I meant that I was still striving to be richer.  I actually feel like I have enough.  I meant that I don’t feel like I am a 1%er.  I am making a conscious effort to live modestly.

Click to expand…

I fully understand what you mean. Having 4, 5 or even 10M does not make one rich to the extent that that one throws money left and right without any care in the world. The people who do that are the suddenly rich lottery and large inheritance winners. People egg them on and make them feel rich and its gets into their heads and they blow through all that money quickly.

People who go from $10K to 100K to 1M and then 10M or more do not do that. They may have a slightly bigger and nicer house and maybe a Lexus but otherwise look and behave the same. They still look for sales in Macy’s and Kohl’s and look at eBay and Amazon for reasonably priced items. They are unlikely to be wearing a Hermes scarf or carry Louis Vuitton luggage and take the 1st class flights every time. Unless someone tells them or they come across it while reading, they are  unlikely to know that their net worth puts them in the 1 % or .05% or even .01%.

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And professional athletes, celebrities.

[Kamban]

hatton1 wrote:

Sorry WCI if I made you think by my comment that I did not feel rich you thought I meant that I was still striving to be richer.  I actually feel like I have enough.  I meant that I don’t feel like I am a 1%er.  I am making a conscious effort to live modestly.

Click to expand...

I fully understand what you mean. Having 4, 5 or even 10M does not make one rich to the extent that that one throws money left and right without any care in the world. The people who do that are the suddenly rich lottery and large inheritance winners. People egg them on and make them feel rich and its gets into their heads and they blow through all that money quickly.

People who go from $10K to 100K to 1M and then 10M or more do not do that. They may have a slightly bigger and nicer house and maybe a Lexus but otherwise look and behave the same. They still look for sales in Macy's and Kohl's and look at eBay and Amazon for reasonably priced items. They are unlikely to be wearing a Hermes scarf or carry Louis Vuitton luggage and take the 1st class flights every time. Unless someone tells them or they come across it while reading, they are  unlikely to know that their net worth puts them in the 1 % or .05% or even .01%.

[Zaphod]

CM wrote:

hightower wrote:

I’ve been reading an Eckhart Tolle book recently.   Its started to make me think about the pursuit of wealth differently then I was before.  The ego can never be satisfied.  There is no number that is “enough.”  To quote Tolle “Is that purpose in the future more important to you than what you are doing in the present? If it is, then it is a form of ego. The ego always looks toward the next moment for some kind of fulfillment.”

Click to expand…

Taken literally then, any saving for the future is a form of ego, and that’s a bad thing?

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As would be any form of preparation, study, training, anything....making it idiotic, so Im sure theres a LOT more to it than that lol.

[hightower]

Only if its getting in the way of you being in the present moment  Tolle's philosophy is really interesting, but it takes some time to really grasp what he's saying.  I just brought that up here because its so fresh in my mind.

[CM]

hightower wrote:

I’ve been reading an Eckhart Tolle book recently.   Its started to make me think about the pursuit of wealth differently then I was before.  The ego can never be satisfied.  There is no number that is “enough.”  To quote Tolle “Is that purpose in the future more important to you than what you are doing in the present? If it is, then it is a form of ego. The ego always looks toward the next moment for some kind of fulfillment.”

Click to expand...

Taken literally then, any saving for the future is a form of ego, and that's a bad thing?

[hightower]

I've been reading an Eckhart Tolle book recently.   Its started to make me think about the pursuit of wealth differently then I was before.  The ego can never be satisfied.  There is no number that is "enough."  To quote Tolle "Is that purpose in the future more important to you than what you are doing in the present? If it is, then it is a form of ego. The ego always looks toward the next moment for some kind of fulfillment."