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  • #16
    Originally posted by G View Post
    I will voice the minority opinion from this forum: buy new and get whatever you want.

    If I read your post correctly, you have no debt, have a huge Efund and are living on 10% of your paycheck. You have further demonstrated that you will drive a car into the ground. Go ahead and splurge.

    As an aside, why are you piling such a large amount of your income into HYSA vs investing?
    Planning on saving up for a downpayment for a house in the next 3-5 years. Thought about putting half of that money in a taxable account but idk, seems like its going against convention

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Brains428 View Post
      I've been told the Miata is the way to go for economical sporty car. Not even joking.
      If you REALLY don't care what people think about you, then yes, go with the Miata.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by NaOH View Post
        One of the cars I've always sort of wished I owned was a mid-2000's Acura TL. Just a very handsome, understated design that I think has held up very well, plus 280 hp and a 6-speed manual in the Type-S. If I found myself needing a decent $5000 car I could count on to last a few years, it'd be my pick.
        The 3rd generation Acura TL (2004-2008) is one of the best styled and designed entry level luxury sedans ever made and it still looks very good over 15+ years later.

        I daily drive a 2006 Acura TL since I bought it for $7500 in 2014 (when it was at 160,000 owned by a professor-lawyer couple and it is now at 243,000 miles with only routine maintenance and normal wear and tear stuff.)

        It gets 33-34mpg if I baby it, it has ~260hp V6 that can get to 0-60 in just about 6sec and the interior is quite nice and aging well. I can't find a single car today that has a naturally aspirated healthy sounding V6 that gets that performance AND the fuel economy AND looking good AND has stout reliability of a Honda....

        The 2007-2008 Acura TL had a Type-S performance variant that included manual transmission, 286hp, LSD (limited slip differential), better wheels and suspension and is a sought after enthusiast car that will give you lot of street cred.

        Since 2008 Acura has really dropped ball on enthusiast cars and with the revised TLX and the just announced TLX-S that will be coming next year....hope is high for Acura resurgence.

        The downside to the 3rd generation TL:
        • Honda/Acura leather is known to be a weakspot (my back seats are torn from wear and tear) and many of these Acura TLs have noticeably worn or torn leather
        • Dashboard is known to crack in these cars due to the heat/cold expansion
        • No built-in bluetooth for audio/sound system availability from the factory (this is biggest gripe, this was before bluetooth was ubiquitous). There are aftermarket solutions but they take either a LOT of DIY time or very expensive....this car still has a tape deck, lol
        • The Honda-made automatic transmission in these years, especially 2004-2006 is known to be "glass-like" and can fail. Similar for the early to mid 2000s Honda cars with these transmission. The fix? Drive it properly (ie, never put it into R or D while the car is still rolling, no neutral drops, etc.) and frequently change the ATF along with good maintenance
        • The backseats do NOT fold down into a 60-40 split like most other sedans. It only has a small ski-pass through from the trunk. This is apparently due to bracing/frame design in order to strengthen structural rigidity. So this interferes with larger items that could've fit into the trunk had the back seats being able to fold down.
        • If the car comes with the DVD navigation system, it is known to fail and you get the black screen of death on the nav screen, which renders it useless. Mine is broke on my TL and I never bothered to fix it. You can buy a brand new unit from Honda but it is VERY expensive. Or you could actually ship it back to Alpine (the manufacturer of these units for Honda/Acura) and they would fix it for something like less than $300. There are also other DIY solutions on the Acurazine forums if you're into taking apart DVD units. It's a hit and miss and honestly you can control all the main things without it so I never bothered to fix it
        • The built in HFL (hands free link) bluetooth phone-unit that comes in these cars are known to cause battery-drain issues when the car is shut down leading to a dead battery. Usually people will just disconnect them altogether without losing any functionality since it's often used anyway. My car had this issue when I bought it from the prior owner and I simply disconnected the unit and my Honda battery has lasted 6 years (until I just had to replace it).
        But the 2004 to 2006 Acura TL can be had for about $3-5000 now (the 2007-2008 Acura TL-S is closer to $9k-$11k+) depending on condition.
        The 2007 to 2008 Acura TL also had updated styling in the rear and steering wheel and dashboard.

        With regards to a budget of $17,000....to me that is ALOT of money and you can buy a LOT of car for that much.
        I too would question why the need for Lexus or Acura. Acura, as it stands, is not extremely held in high regard today in the enthusiast community as they've been behind the Germans and Lexus in terms of competitive luxury (Infiniti is horrendous in recent years....). The 4th generation TL was not as great as the 3rd gen and the current line up only has the RDX and the TLX as something to get anything excited about. (edit: we routinely look down on the ILX as a piss-poor small executive/luxury sedan due to its price point and the poor value....many of us would rather get a higher trimmed Accord than a watered down Acura ILX....but I do not want to take away from anyone who actually owns and enjoys this vehicle ;p)

        Lexus is known to be a stout reliability winner in the luxury department, but you will be paying for it. Unless you desperately want/need the L badge and the interior features...a higher trim Toyota, to me, is more value for the money. (edit: check out a Toyota Avalon...it's basically a Lexus ES 300/350 without the Lexus price)

        For $17,000 you can actually buy a car that will easily last you 20 years should you choose to do so:
        • Near new Honda Civic Hatchback (the reliability and economy of a Honda civic with the much bigger cargo space due to hatch design, avoid 2017-2018 years due to the Honda turbo motor oil dilution issues)
        • Near new Toyota Corolla (the redesigned one, not the older generation)
        • Older Toyota Prius (hatchback for cargo, and of course unparalleled economy)
        Be careful with older luxury cars that are in this price range. Lexus is not bad at all but you will be paying more for an older model. it's not as bad as the Germans but you still will be paying more for maintenance/repairs.

        One of the sayings in the car community is that a cheap, older luxury car is one of the most expensive things you can own.

        Good luck.
        Last edited by ginmqi; 08-02-2020, 01:26 PM.

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ginmqi View Post

          The 3rd generation Acura TL (2004-2008) is one of the best styled and designed entry level luxury sedans ever made and it still looks very good over 15+ years later.

          I daily drive a 2006 Acura TL since I bought it for $7500 in 2014 (when it was at 160,000 owned by a professor-lawyer couple and it is now at 243,000 miles with only routine maintenance and normal wear and tear stuff.)

          It gets 33-34mpg if I baby it, it has ~260hp V6 that can get to 0-60 in just about 6sec and the interior is quite nice and aging well. I can't find a single car today that has a naturally aspirated healthy sounding V6 that gets that performance AND the fuel economy AND looking good AND has stout reliability of a Honda....

          The 2007-2008 Acura TL had a Type-S performance variant that included manual transmission, 286hp, LSD (limited slip differential), better wheels and suspension and is a sought after enthusiast car that will give you lot of street cred.

          Since 2008 Acura has really dropped ball on enthusiast cars and with the revised TLX and the just announced TLX-S that will be coming next year....hope is high for Acura resurgence.

          The downside to the 3rd generation TL:
          • Honda/Acura leather is known to be a weakspot (my back seats are torn from wear and tear) and many of these Acura TLs have noticeably worn or torn leather
          • Dashboard is known to crack in these cars due to the heat/cold expansion
          • No built-in bluetooth for audio/sound system availability from the factory (this is biggest gripe, this was before bluetooth was ubiquitous). There are aftermarket solutions but they take either a LOT of DIY time or very expensive....this car still has a tape deck, lol
          • The Honda-made automatic transmission in these years, especially 2004-2006 is known to be "glass-like" and can fail. Similar for the early to mid 2000s Honda cars with these transmission. The fix? Drive it properly (ie, never put it into R or D while the car is still rolling, no neutral drops, etc.) and frequently change the ATF along with good maintenance
          • The backseats do NOT fold down into a 60-40 split like most other sedans. It only has a small ski-pass through from the trunk. This is apparently due to bracing/frame design in order to strengthen structural rigidity. So this interferes with larger items that could've fit into the trunk had the back seats being able to fold down.
          • If the car comes with the DVD navigation system, it is known to fail and you get the black screen of death on the nav screen, which renders it useless. Mine is broke on my TL and I never bothered to fix it. You can buy a brand new unit from Honda but it is VERY expensive. Or you could actually ship it back to Alpine (the manufacturer of these units for Honda/Acura) and they would fix it for something like less than $300. There are also other DIY solutions on the Acurazine forums if you're into taking apart DVD units. It's a hit and miss and honestly you can control all the main things without it so I never bothered to fix it
          • The built in HFL (hands free link) bluetooth phone-unit that comes in these cars are known to cause battery-drain issues when the car is shut down leading to a dead battery. Usually people will just disconnect them altogether without losing any functionality since it's often used anyway. My car had this issue when I bought it from the prior owner and I simply disconnected the unit and my Honda battery has lasted 6 years (until I just had to replace it).
          But the 2004 to 2006 Acura TL can be had for about $3-5000 now (the 2007-2008 Acura TL-S is closer to $9k-$11k+) depending on condition.
          The 2007 to 2008 Acura TL also had updated styling in the rear and steering wheel and dashboard.

          With regards to a budget of $17,000....to me that is ALOT of money and you can buy a LOT of car for that much.
          I too would question why the need for Lexus or Acura. Acura, as it stands, is not extremely held in high regard today in the enthusiast community as they've been behind the Germans and Lexus in terms of competitive luxury (Infiniti is horrendous in recent years....). The 4th generation TL was not as great as the 3rd gen and the current line up only has the RDX and the TLX as something to get anything excited about. (edit: we routinely look down on the ILX as a piss-poor small executive/luxury sedan due to its price point and the poor value....many of us would rather get a higher trimmed Accord than a watered down Acura ILX....but I do not want to take away from anyone who actually owns and enjoys this vehicle ;p)

          Lexus is known to be a stout reliability winner in the luxury department, but you will be paying for it. Unless you desperately want/need the L badge and the interior features...a higher trim Toyota, to me, is more value for the money. (edit: check out a Toyota Avalon...it's basically a Lexus ES 300/350 without the Lexus price)

          For $17,000 you can actually buy a car that will easily last you 20 years should you choose to do so:
          • Near new Honda Civic Hatchback (the reliability and economy of a Honda civic with the much bigger cargo space due to hatch design, avoid 2017-2018 years due to the Honda turbo motor oil dilution issues)
          • Near new Toyota Corolla (the redesigned one, not the older generation)
          • Older Toyota Prius (hatchback for cargo, and of course unparalleled economy)
          Be careful with older luxury cars that are in this price range. Lexus is not bad at all but you will be paying more for an older model. it's not as bad as the Germans but you still will be paying more for maintenance/repairs.

          One of the sayings in the car community is that a cheap, older luxury car is one of the most expensive things you can own.

          Good luck.
          Agree the Avalon seems a good value proposition

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by NaOH View Post

            Yeah, they definitely are. I really like them - I've always thought the current generation looked like a much more premium vehicle than its price would suggest. Wouldn't be a bad choice at all.


            One of the cars I've always sort of wished I owned was a mid-2000's Acura TL. Just a very handsome, understated design that I think has held up very well, plus 280 hp and a 6-speed manual in the Type-S. If I found myself needing a decent $5000 car I could count on to last a few years, it'd be my pick.
            I have this exact car. 6-speed manual 2006 model. Just rolled over 200k miles and still runs like a top.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by ginmqi View Post

              The 3rd generation Acura TL (2004-2008) is one of the best styled and designed entry level luxury sedans ever made and it still looks very good over 15+ years later.

              I daily drive a 2006 Acura TL since I bought it for $7500 in 2014 (when it was at 160,000 owned by a professor-lawyer couple and it is now at 243,000 miles with only routine maintenance and normal wear and tear stuff.)

              It gets 33-34mpg if I baby it, it has ~260hp V6 that can get to 0-60 in just about 6sec and the interior is quite nice and aging well. I can't find a single car today that has a naturally aspirated healthy sounding V6 that gets that performance AND the fuel economy AND looking good AND has stout reliability of a Honda....

              The 2007-2008 Acura TL had a Type-S performance variant that included manual transmission, 286hp, LSD (limited slip differential), better wheels and suspension and is a sought after enthusiast car that will give you lot of street cred.

              Since 2008 Acura has really dropped ball on enthusiast cars and with the revised TLX and the just announced TLX-S that will be coming next year....hope is high for Acura resurgence.

              The downside to the 3rd generation TL:
              • Honda/Acura leather is known to be a weakspot (my back seats are torn from wear and tear) and many of these Acura TLs have noticeably worn or torn leather
              • Dashboard is known to crack in these cars due to the heat/cold expansion
              • No built-in bluetooth for audio/sound system availability from the factory (this is biggest gripe, this was before bluetooth was ubiquitous). There are aftermarket solutions but they take either a LOT of DIY time or very expensive....this car still has a tape deck, lol
              • The Honda-made automatic transmission in these years, especially 2004-2006 is known to be "glass-like" and can fail. Similar for the early to mid 2000s Honda cars with these transmission. The fix? Drive it properly (ie, never put it into R or D while the car is still rolling, no neutral drops, etc.) and frequently change the ATF along with good maintenance
              • The backseats do NOT fold down into a 60-40 split like most other sedans. It only has a small ski-pass through from the trunk. This is apparently due to bracing/frame design in order to strengthen structural rigidity. So this interferes with larger items that could've fit into the trunk had the back seats being able to fold down.
              • If the car comes with the DVD navigation system, it is known to fail and you get the black screen of death on the nav screen, which renders it useless. Mine is broke on my TL and I never bothered to fix it. You can buy a brand new unit from Honda but it is VERY expensive. Or you could actually ship it back to Alpine (the manufacturer of these units for Honda/Acura) and they would fix it for something like less than $300. There are also other DIY solutions on the Acurazine forums if you're into taking apart DVD units. It's a hit and miss and honestly you can control all the main things without it so I never bothered to fix it
              • The built in HFL (hands free link) bluetooth phone-unit that comes in these cars are known to cause battery-drain issues when the car is shut down leading to a dead battery. Usually people will just disconnect them altogether without losing any functionality since it's often used anyway. My car had this issue when I bought it from the prior owner and I simply disconnected the unit and my Honda battery has lasted 6 years (until I just had to replace it).
              But the 2004 to 2006 Acura TL can be had for about $3-5000 now (the 2007-2008 Acura TL-S is closer to $9k-$11k+) depending on condition.
              The 2007 to 2008 Acura TL also had updated styling in the rear and steering wheel and dashboard.

              With regards to a budget of $17,000....to me that is ALOT of money and you can buy a LOT of car for that much.
              I too would question why the need for Lexus or Acura. Acura, as it stands, is not extremely held in high regard today in the enthusiast community as they've been behind the Germans and Lexus in terms of competitive luxury (Infiniti is horrendous in recent years....). The 4th generation TL was not as great as the 3rd gen and the current line up only has the RDX and the TLX as something to get anything excited about. (edit: we routinely look down on the ILX as a piss-poor small executive/luxury sedan due to its price point and the poor value....many of us would rather get a higher trimmed Accord than a watered down Acura ILX....but I do not want to take away from anyone who actually owns and enjoys this vehicle ;p)

              Lexus is known to be a stout reliability winner in the luxury department, but you will be paying for it. Unless you desperately want/need the L badge and the interior features...a higher trim Toyota, to me, is more value for the money. (edit: check out a Toyota Avalon...it's basically a Lexus ES 300/350 without the Lexus price)

              For $17,000 you can actually buy a car that will easily last you 20 years should you choose to do so:
              • Near new Honda Civic Hatchback (the reliability and economy of a Honda civic with the much bigger cargo space due to hatch design, avoid 2017-2018 years due to the Honda turbo motor oil dilution issues)
              • Near new Toyota Corolla (the redesigned one, not the older generation)
              • Older Toyota Prius (hatchback for cargo, and of course unparalleled economy)
              Be careful with older luxury cars that are in this price range. Lexus is not bad at all but you will be paying more for an older model. it's not as bad as the Germans but you still will be paying more for maintenance/repairs.

              One of the sayings in the car community is that a cheap, older luxury car is one of the most expensive things you can own.

              Good luck.
              Sounds like we are rolling around in the same car!

              Comment


              • #22
                Buy a model 3. Buying ice car in 2020 just doesn’t make sense. I’m trolling a bit here but fairly serious.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by BCBiker View Post
                  Buy a model 3. Buying ice car in 2020 just doesn’t make sense. I’m trolling a bit here but fairly serious.
                  LOL i cant imagine a resident rolling in a model 3 and parking next to my attending who drives a honda civic

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                    If you REALLY don't care what people think about you, then yes, go with the Miata.
                    I actually really respect Miata drivers these days. They are very good cars and true enthusiasts on a budget favor them for a reason. They are reliable and loads of fun to toss around. There is some residual stigma as your comment demonstrates, but all in all, I tip my hat to Miata drivers out there living their best lives. That being said, it's just not for me.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by skuggs13 View Post

                      LOL i cant imagine a resident rolling in a model 3 and parking next to my attending who drives a honda civic
                      Better that than the resident in BMW M3 next to the Civic.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by G View Post
                        I will voice the minority opinion from this forum: buy new and get whatever you want.
                        I also concur with a new lower end Accord that is last year's model ( 2020 model in October). You get some really good prices with a new reliable car and all the safety features that you can easily keep maintenance free for 10+ years. I do that to all the cars I have owned since my 2nd car purchase.

                        Hondas and Toyotas don't depreciate all that much over the first few years and used ones come with no rebates, end of year markdown and some question on how it was driven for the first 50K miles. Paying a bit more and purchasing new often makes sense.



                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Kamban View Post

                          I also concur with a new lower end Accord that is last year's model ( 2020 model in October). You get some really good prices with a new reliable car and all the safety features that you can easily keep maintenance free for 10+ years. I do that to all the cars I have owned since my 2nd car purchase.

                          Hondas and Toyotas don't depreciate all that much over the first few years and used ones come with no rebates, end of year markdown and some question on how it was driven for the first 50K miles. Paying a bit more and purchasing new often makes sense.


                          Yeah that is the conclusion I am coming to as well. I think buying new makes a lot of sense in this context - thank you all for your help! I think I can bang my honda around for another few months until the new year model's start rolling in (october/november projected for 2021 release) and then buy a "new" 2020 that will hopefully have bigger price cut with the given economic crisis.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            As a Miata owner, I take umbridge with the negative comments.

                            i like mine. It's a different kind of fun compared to other cars.
                            "Everybody Loves Raymond" Meeting the Parents (TV Episode 2003) Doris Roberts as Marie Barone
                            $1 saved = >$1 earned. ✓

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
                              I fully believe that the luxury brands aren’t that much different than their regular brand and you just pay extra for the badging.

                              i would much rather get a high trim toyota/Honda than a low trim Lexus/Acura for about the same price.
                              They are different for sure, maybe not in reliability per se, as both base and lux companies are just plain excellent.

                              Have had a lexus for 6 years, its nothing short of amazing, just routine-ish maintenance and its been perfect.

                              You can find odd deals of course and can find the base model and try to get it or whatever, but often the regular souped up version is pretty spendy itself, not a big diff and sometimes better to get luxury variant.

                              They also hold their looks for a long time. Even the model style prior to mine still looks like a good looking nice car, expect mine will for a long time forward even though its one model change behind already.

                              As someone has said here, you're either paying maintenance or depreciation.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
                                I fully believe that the luxury brands aren’t that much different than their regular brand and you just pay extra for the badging.

                                i would much rather get a high trim toyota/Honda than a low trim Lexus/Acura for about the same price.
                                I think it depends on how each person can tell a difference between cars.

                                As much as I am a value buyer...being a "car guy" I do have to say that luxury cars ARE most certainly built different. One of the most noticeable way is the reduction of NVH (noise, vibration, harshness).

                                Higher trim economy brands (ie, Camry) can have similar creature comforts on the inside such as leather, infotainment, driving assists, etc.

                                However, a comparable Lexus vehicle will have more insulation, sound-deadening, suspension that will be more comfortable over bumps, sound-proof glass where the noise is less and should have better trim/finish on the interior to reduce any noises.

                                I bet that if we were to conduct a double-blind study, that more people will be able to tell a difference riding in an economy sedan than a luxury sedan.

                                Comment

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