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Why don\'t more MDs retire early (40\'s)? Do you know any?

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  • Hatton
    replied
    It does take a number of years but I agree with Kamban that when you reach a point that you don't need to practice it becomes more satisfying. I love providing jobs for my staff.  Many of my long term patients are really friends.  I still like working but just not too hard.

    Leave a comment:


  • Kamban
    replied




    I was talking with a family member recently who has a small solo private practice.  They’re in their mid-60’s and seemingly have enough to retire on.  When asked about if/when they’ll retire, they said they enjoy what they do, like the social interaction with their patients (many of whom have become friends) and they aren’t sure what they’d do if they retired.  They live simple lives, are currently working part-time and have the ability to take days off whenever they want.  Likewise, as much as I desire to be FI asap, I can’t easily imagine retiring completely at a young age.  At the very least I’d continue working part-time, teaching, etc.
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    Which relative of mine are you?  

    Except for the age ( I am in my late 50's) everything else fits me to a T. I have my own practice, love interacting with staff and patients and work 6 hours a day, 4 days a week. I can take off 2-2.5 weeks at a stretch, which is the right amount I need for a trip abroad. I enjoy weekends ( like this one) since I have 0-2 patients in the hospital at any time, usually zero.

    People give 10 % or more to charity.  I too do monetary charity but feel that another purpose in life that God has given me via a nearly free education ( see the FMG quest post here on WCI by another FMG) is to help others in life. I do that by having 6 employees having gainful employment and being a service to many patients. I have never sent a patient to collections and feel that "you lose some and you win some" in life, but come out ahead in the end. I probably earn only in the 25th percentile in my specialty but the freedom of choice at work and other sources of passive income make it worthwhile to just let things continue as they are.

    Leave a comment:


  • VagabondMD
    replied




    I was talking with a family member recently who has a small solo private practice.  They’re in their mid-60’s and seemingly have enough to retire on.  When asked about if/when they’ll retire, they said they enjoy what they do, like the social interaction with their patients (many of whom have become friends) and they aren’t sure what they’d do if they retired.  They live simple lives, are currently working part-time and have the ability to take days off whenever they want.  Likewise, as much as I desire to be FI asap, I can’t easily imagine retiring completely at a young age.  At the very least I’d continue working part-time, teaching, etc.
    Click to expand...


    I think that if I had this option, I could work indefinitely. My situation seems to be either balls-to-the-wall or you're out. I am going to give part time a chance, but I suspect that it will be drinking from the fire hose every other week, rather than every week.

    Leave a comment:


  • fasteddie911
    replied
    I was talking with a family member recently who has a small solo private practice.  They're in their mid-60's and seemingly have enough to retire on.  When asked about if/when they'll retire, they said they enjoy what they do, like the social interaction with their patients (many of whom have become friends) and they aren't sure what they'd do if they retired.  They live simple lives, are currently working part-time and have the ability to take days off whenever they want.  Likewise, as much as I desire to be FI asap, I can't easily imagine retiring completely at a young age.  At the very least I'd continue working part-time, teaching, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • GXA
    replied
    Completely agree.  As likely having achieved FI last year at the age of 41, we have all kinds of options.  I still enjoy working and with kids at home, I do not plan on completely retiring.  I do plan to reduce my work hours this summer and retire when my youngest goes to college.  With less clinical hours, I will have more time to exercise and pursue other activities outside medicine.

    Leave a comment:


  • StarTrekDoc
    replied








    2. Work one more year during which you can save $$$ and see your investments grow (and need them to last one year) 
    Click to expand…


    The Power of One More Year can be huge. Let’s say, hypothetically, a hard-working, good-looking anesthesiologist can set aside $200,000 working one additional year. Also assume they don’t spend down their portfolio by $80,000 which is their anticipated retirement spending.

    That’s $11,200 a year for my family, I mean, his or her family to spend annually based on a 4% withdrawal rate. I wouldn’t count market returns on the pre-existing portfolio as a factor since you’d get those whether or not you were working. Still, one more year can make a big difference, which is a big reason I’m still working.

     
    Click to expand…


    Many people seem to get hung up on this definition of retirement thing, but it is really not important. It is about the journey and increasing happiness and freedom in your life. Putting yourself in a position where you can even have the discussion is a game changer. When we bicker about a 4% or 3.5% SWR when we are between those numbers at age 42 is incredibly liberating.

    Who cares what PoF does or when he ‘retires’, he is free!

    Financial independence creates freedom. I am working part time right now because I created a high degree of financial freedom for myself early in my career. I could probably retire tomorrow and be fine, but that is not the point. I have the freedom to choose. Once someone gets to this place it doesn’t matter of they have one more year syndrome or the internet retirement police are up in arms. When work is an optional choice none this discussion even really matters.

    For the record I’m a huge fan of part time for the right person.

    http://thehappyphilosopher.com/a-physicians-guide-to-working-part-time/

    Good, happy physicians are in high demand in this country. Many of us can create a practice we love that doesn’t feel like work if we are not enslaved to the paycheck that comes attached to it. Part-time, alternative practice models, etc. We have much more power than we think we do, but often times we give it away.
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    Amen.

    FIRE -  The emphasis for the vast majority of us here is the FI that happens around the 40s.  We're in a profession where work-life balance is key if one doesn't want burnout and continue to enjoy the key reason why we went into this profession.

    I don't see myself retiring until my 60s cause I really enjoy my 'low pay' outpatient internist job.   Will it probably morph to part time to allow more charitable and educational.  Certainly not the -RE and sit on a yacht and be beachfront bum.

    Leave a comment:


  • DMFA
    replied
    Financial independence is the key, imo. I want to be able to quit working whenever I feel like it, not to be kept in by not having enough to maintain my lifestyle, cover expenses I shouldn't have anymore, etc. But if I like what I do and it fits into my overall life well (esp if I'm still enchanted by "the calling" etc), why would I stop altogether?

    Leave a comment:


  • VagabondMD
    replied
    Well said, HappyPhilo!

    For me, it is coming down to balancing the aggravation of work and the things that I enjoy about work. If I could toss out some of the alligators, the career would be more sustainable.

     

    Last Thursday, after finishing a kyphoplasty, I really felt that it was a blast to do, and the patient really appreciated it. If I could do these all day, I would work forever. Heck, I would do them for free.

    Of course, the immediate procedure was a total clusterf, and I left saying to myself that if I ever have to do that again I would resign on the spot and that there is no amount of money that could compensate me for the misery of that experience!

    Over time, at least for me, the negatives are weighing heavier than the positives, and this is making the decision to cut back and eventually leave much easier. It would be easier if Career 2.0 were a little better established.

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHappyPhilosopher
    replied





    2. Work one more year during which you can save $$$ and see your investments grow (and need them to last one year) 
    Click to expand…


    The Power of One More Year can be huge. Let’s say, hypothetically, a hard-working, good-looking anesthesiologist can set aside $200,000 working one additional year. Also assume they don’t spend down their portfolio by $80,000 which is their anticipated retirement spending.

    That’s $11,200 a year for my family, I mean, his or her family to spend annually based on a 4% withdrawal rate. I wouldn’t count market returns on the pre-existing portfolio as a factor since you’d get those whether or not you were working. Still, one more year can make a big difference, which is a big reason I’m still working.

     
    Click to expand...


    Many people seem to get hung up on this definition of retirement thing, but it is really not important. It is about the journey and increasing happiness and freedom in your life. Putting yourself in a position where you can even have the discussion is a game changer. When we bicker about a 4% or 3.5% SWR when we are between those numbers at age 42 is incredibly liberating.

    Who cares what PoF does or when he 'retires', he is free!

    Financial independence creates freedom. I am working part time right now because I created a high degree of financial freedom for myself early in my career. I could probably retire tomorrow and be fine, but that is not the point. I have the freedom to choose. Once someone gets to this place it doesn't matter of they have one more year syndrome or the internet retirement police are up in arms. When work is an optional choice none this discussion even really matters.

    For the record I'm a huge fan of part time for the right person.

    http://thehappyphilosopher.com/a-physicians-guide-to-working-part-time/

    Good, happy physicians are in high demand in this country. Many of us can create a practice we love that doesn't feel like work if we are not enslaved to the paycheck that comes attached to it. Part-time, alternative practice models, etc. We have much more power than we think we do, but often times we give it away.

    Leave a comment:


  • DarrVao777
    replied


    Can we all just agree that any person that quits medicine to be a stay at home parent is not retired??? Because what crazy person thinks to themselves “I really hope to retire to a life where I’m awoken every 2hours to feed or otherwise pacify an adorable but incredibly selfish and demanding human being”? ? I say this as I’m in the midst of subjecting myself to the tyranny of the cutest 3 month old around. I’m hardly doing any doctor work right now (and yes, I agree it is a luxury to be able to have the choice between working or staying at home), but as any parent knows, I’m still working a ton! If you quit medicine to be a SAHP, you are just changing your line of work, not retiring. Not to be the retirement police or retirement shame anyone ?
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    Agree completely

    In the midst of trying to get my wife to stop working completely (non-medicine) to take care of our 6 month old handful

    I would hardly call it retirement as I'm pretty sure her job is more stressful than mine!

    Leave a comment:


  • wideopenspaces
    replied













    Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They’re called women ?

    Seriously though, only reason an MD would typically retire that early is due to some disability or because the MD had enough money or other income to no longer need to work.  For the habitual saver who loves to put money away, retiring that early is asking that saver to stop saving and give up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not going to happen.

    The only MDs I know of that have retired that early are MDs married to other MDs who no longer need the money and prefer to stay home with kids etc.  Even then, only a handful.  Too much time and effort invested, student loans accrued, etc. to hang it up so quickly.  And then most are happy with their jobs, are the primary breadwinners in their family, have to support a lavish lifestyle they’ve been living since college, etc. etc.
    Click to expand…


    Craigy- first sentence is totally uncool.  For as many as there are 20/30 something females who are “retired”, there are plenty of 20/30 something males who have “failed to launch”.   Also, there are plenty of SAHD married to female MDs who are sole breadwinners.  Its like sex and reproduction, it takes two to tango. Please reconsider.

    Interestingly, I recently read about a woman, who at age 69, did not want to retire.  Furthermore, she has never taken a backseat and even tolerated some poorly made choices from her counterpart. Instead, she was willing to continue to put effort into the work which she has committed more than half her life towards.  But, alas, what do we have now……

     
    Click to expand…


    The facts are the facts no matter how much you reconsider or how often you tango.  ?

    The 20s, 30s, 40s who voluntarily retire, cut back their hours or work part time tend to be female.  Deciding to be a full-time parent is a great thing and a great luxury.  You shouldn’t shame, discourage or otherwise be offended by women who decide that’s what they want to do.

     
    Click to expand…


    “Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They’re called women”

    “The 20s, 30s, 40s who voluntarily retire, cut back their hours or work part time tend to be female.”

    Craigy- We can agree to disagree.

    I am in no way ashamed, discouraged or offended.  Tho, I do think your addition of “tend to be” does alter your original statement.

    You wrote them, not me. *wink*
    Click to expand...


    Can we all just agree that any person that quits medicine to be a stay at home parent is not retired??? Because what crazy person thinks to themselves "I really hope to retire to a life where I'm awoken every 2hours to feed or otherwise pacify an adorable but incredibly selfish and demanding human being"? ;-) I say this as I'm in the midst of subjecting myself to the tyranny of the cutest 3 month old around. I'm hardly doing any doctor work right now (and yes, I agree it is a luxury to be able to have the choice between working or staying at home), but as any parent knows, I'm still working a ton! If you quit medicine to be a SAHP, you are just changing your line of work, not retiring. Not to be the retirement police or retirement shame anyone :-)

    Leave a comment:


  • childay
    replied




    Let’s avoid “retirement-shaming.”
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    Haha only on the internet

    Leave a comment:


  • PhysicianOnFIRE
    replied


    Oooh, he’s calling you out. So here’s the question for the internet retirement police. If he quits practicing but keeps blogging is that “fully retiring” or not?
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    When it does happen, I'll say I'm "retired from clinical medicine." I don't intend to start using that term until I've stopped entertaining the idea of working locums, and have let my licenses, board certification, ACLS, BLS, and PALS expire.

    I will only know the date of my retirement from medicine in hindsight. Declaring complete retirement before I've had a chance to experience it would be pure folly.

    I will say that attending a large RV show at the convention center yesterday did nothing to persuade me to work any longer than I'm anticipating; an 18-month timeframe looks about right before embarking on our next adventure.

    Cheers!

    -PoF

    Leave a comment:


  • The White Coat Investor
    replied







    If you have a blog about early retirement, I think it’s a fair question for discussion whether you yourself will actually retire from medicine in your 40’s, I mentioned this since it relates to this thread.  I know there is a sensitive person on the thread who thinks I am trolling but I stand by everything I’ve written respectfully.

    fatlittlepig
    Click to expand…


    It depends on your interpretation. I interpret his blog as a roadmap on how to become financially independent and how to be able to retire early.

    I don’t think it necessarily requires pulling the trigger on actually retiring early.

    In my case, I’m happy to read his blog, utilize his tips, but for now, I plan on working until 65. Doesn’t make his blog any less relevant to me.
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    I think it would be a shame if someone retired early because they hung out with too many FIRE types and felt that success was only defined by how early and on how paltry an income you could retire. Likewise, I think it would be a shame if someone retired early just because they have a blog about retiring early. And let's remember that FIRE includes not only retire early, but also financially independent. While the biggest benefit of FI is clearly RE, there are other benefits. Retire when you're able to and when you want to. Isn't that what we all want? For some it'll be 43, some 53, some 63, and some 73. Different strokes for different folks.

    Let's avoid "retirement-shaming."

    Leave a comment:


  • anontoday
    replied










    Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They’re called women ?

    Seriously though, only reason an MD would typically retire that early is due to some disability or because the MD had enough money or other income to no longer need to work.  For the habitual saver who loves to put money away, retiring that early is asking that saver to stop saving and give up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not going to happen.

    The only MDs I know of that have retired that early are MDs married to other MDs who no longer need the money and prefer to stay home with kids etc.  Even then, only a handful.  Too much time and effort invested, student loans accrued, etc. to hang it up so quickly.  And then most are happy with their jobs, are the primary breadwinners in their family, have to support a lavish lifestyle they’ve been living since college, etc. etc.
    Click to expand…


    Craigy- first sentence is totally uncool.  For as many as there are 20/30 something females who are “retired”, there are plenty of 20/30 something males who have “failed to launch”.   Also, there are plenty of SAHD married to female MDs who are sole breadwinners.  Its like sex and reproduction, it takes two to tango. Please reconsider.

    Interestingly, I recently read about a woman, who at age 69, did not want to retire.  Furthermore, she has never taken a backseat and even tolerated some poorly made choices from her counterpart. Instead, she was willing to continue to put effort into the work which she has committed more than half her life towards.  But, alas, what do we have now……

     
    Click to expand…


    The facts are the facts no matter how much you reconsider or how often you tango.  ?

    The 20s, 30s, 40s who voluntarily retire, cut back their hours or work part time tend to be female.  Deciding to be a full-time parent is a great thing and a great luxury.  You shouldn’t shame, discourage or otherwise be offended by women who decide that’s what they want to do.

     
    Click to expand...


    "Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They’re called women"

    "The 20s, 30s, 40s who voluntarily retire, cut back their hours or work part time tend to be female."

    Craigy- We can agree to disagree.

    I am in no way ashamed, discouraged or offended.  Tho, I do think your addition of "tend to be" does alter your original statement.

    You wrote them, not me. *wink*

    Leave a comment:

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