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Why don\'t more MDs retire early (40\'s)? Do you know any?

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  • fatlittlepig
    replied





    @PoF – I mean slippery slope though no? One more year…just one more and soon you realize its a string of 10 years. 
    Click to expand…


    Believe me, I know. It’s a discussion my wife and I have at least monthly. Really just vacillating between 2018 and 2019 exit dates, and whether or not to explore a half-time option.
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    not meant to be a personal attack. but I doubt you will have the guts to actually pull the trigger and fully retire. i do like your blog though.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhysicianOnFIRE
    replied


    @PoF – I mean slippery slope though no? One more year…just one more and soon you realize its a string of 10 years.
    Click to expand...


    Believe me, I know. It's a discussion my wife and I have at least monthly. Really just vacillating between 2018 and 2019 exit dates, and whether or not to explore a half-time option.

    Leave a comment:


  • jhwkr542
    replied




    We have been very spoiled by the long lasting bull market.  A bad bear market will destroy many plans for early retirement.  Giving up your skills and income in your 40s seems like a bad move given the uncertainties of the future and life.  Going part time, doing locums or taking a lower paying job are much better options.
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    Very much this.  It'd be very difficult to quit work for years and then get back in practice like nothing changed.  You'd have trouble getting licensed/credentialed plus getting back into a workflow.  I have trouble readjusting even after a week off!

    Leave a comment:


  • Complete_newbie
    replied














    In fact I know of none. 
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    Well, now you know one.

     
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    Actually I’m not referring to people who think about possibly retiring in 1-2 years but those who actually *have* pulled the plug (I think there’s a big difference)

    its pretty telling that no one here knows of someone who actually retired at age 45 or so, im just trying to figure out why that is.
    Click to expand…


    Oh, you want to know about early retired doctors. I still maintain I’m an “early retirement doctor” since I’m planning on it, writing about it, and have a website devoted to the concept.

    I would guess most everyone here knows a physician who was no longer working by 45. I know one who finished residency and never worked again. I’ll bet she was 29. And yes, she was married to another doctor. Others are forced into “retirement” due to legal issues or substance abuse — I know a number of those, sadly.

    It is not easy to put yourself in a position to do so, particularly if you’re also supporting a family. Here’s my guide on how to retire by 45 if anyone’s looking for a roadmap.

     

     
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    You don’t count in my book until you pull the trigger.  We have been very spoiled by the long lasting bull market.  A bad bear market will destroy many plans for early retirement.  Giving up your skills and income in your 40s seems like a bad move given the uncertainties of the future and life.  Going part time, doing locums or taking a lower paying job are much better options.
    Click to expand...


    I believe this to be the case. This Bull market is like a lull. Lets see how many are very confident in a long long bear market. The true test of grit and sticking to the plan.

    @PoF - I mean slippery slope though no? One more year...just one more and soon you realize its a string of 10 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Raddoc123
    replied











    In fact I know of none. 
    Click to expand…


    Well, now you know one.

     
    Click to expand…


    Actually I’m not referring to people who think about possibly retiring in 1-2 years but those who actually *have* pulled the plug (I think there’s a big difference)

    its pretty telling that no one here knows of someone who actually retired at age 45 or so, im just trying to figure out why that is.
    Click to expand…


    Oh, you want to know about early retired doctors. I still maintain I’m an “early retirement doctor” since I’m planning on it, writing about it, and have a website devoted to the concept.

    I would guess most everyone here knows a physician who was no longer working by 45. I know one who finished residency and never worked again. I’ll bet she was 29. And yes, she was married to another doctor. Others are forced into “retirement” due to legal issues or substance abuse — I know a number of those, sadly.

    It is not easy to put yourself in a position to do so, particularly if you’re also supporting a family. Here’s my guide on how to retire by 45 if anyone’s looking for a roadmap.

     

     
    Click to expand...


    You don't count in my book until you pull the trigger.  We have been very spoiled by the long lasting bull market.  A bad bear market will destroy many plans for early retirement.  Giving up your skills and income in your 40s seems like a bad move given the uncertainties of the future and life.  Going part time, doing locums or taking a lower paying job are much better options.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhysicianOnFIRE
    replied


    2. Work one more year during which you can save $$$ and see your investments grow (and need them to last one year)
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    The Power of One More Year can be huge. Let's say, hypothetically, a hard-working, good-looking anesthesiologist can set aside $200,000 working one additional year. Also assume they don't spend down their portfolio by $80,000 which is their anticipated retirement spending.

    That's $11,200 a year for my family, I mean, his or her family to spend annually based on a 4% withdrawal rate. I wouldn't count market returns on the pre-existing portfolio as a factor since you'd get those whether or not you were working. Still, one more year can make a big difference, which is a big reason I'm still working.

     

    Leave a comment:


  • G
    replied
    I'm speeding towards FI--obviously, the recent equities market has helped a lot.  Originally, I had planned to pull the ripcord as soon as possible, but I'm finding that cutting down my hours at work makes the actual job a lot more palatable and gives me more than enough time to enjoy my other vices and hobbies.  Heck, I even have enough time to practice being a stay at home dad.  I could stop now (43 yo) and live indefinitely on an upper-middle class income...or I can work part-time (a veritable vacation as alluded to earlier) and continue walking around the hospital picking up $100 bills off of the ground and enjoying a decidedly patrician lifestyle.

    Don't get me wrong, if they stop paying me or if the Gov jacks up my tax rate: I can and will go John Galt.

    So add me to the list of MDs who are able, but choose not, to retire in their 40s.

    Leave a comment:


  • EJ at Dads Dollars and Debts
    replied
    It's not common but I don't think we should burn the people who want to do it. It is okay to say no to doctoring if you want (I wrote a post saying as much). For me, I would like to work 10 more years (14 total since training and it would put me around 45) then scale back to 60% after a 6 month to 1 year sabbatical. That way I would be doing the job but at a much slower pace and can keep it going for a bit longer.

    Leave a comment:


  • The White Coat Investor
    replied




    I called the OP troll because your tone is like “God! why can’t doctors retire? They must suck! why aren’t they investing and just do this or that” infact here is an excerpt from your prior post (yea I looked it up to make a point)

    • lives below their means (saving aggressively, >>50% take home)

    • invests aggressively (not risky investments per se, but investing large amounts of money monthly)

    • avoiding real estate, and other questionable investments

    • avoiding financial advisors/products

    • DIY mentality, very limited amount of outsourcing


    Sorry but considering RE questionable is dumb. That shows lack of investing knowledge to be honest.

    You are not a troll, but not every doctor is going to follow your philosophy. Also majority docs have good income not outstanding income to just retire at 40 + need financial freedom not just independence + just like medicine + got nothing to retire to that early + still got young kids.

    My 2 cents.
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    Tone is always hard to judge on the internet. I've found it helps to always assume the best in those you interact with. You'll often be pleased to find out you're right and they had no intention of writing anything offensive.

    Leave a comment:


  • PhysicianOnFIRE
    replied








    In fact I know of none. 
    Click to expand…


    Well, now you know one.

     
    Click to expand…


    Actually I’m not referring to people who think about possibly retiring in 1-2 years but those who actually *have* pulled the plug (I think there’s a big difference)

    its pretty telling that no one here knows of someone who actually retired at age 45 or so, im just trying to figure out why that is.
    Click to expand...


    Oh, you want to know about early retired doctors. I still maintain I'm an "early retirement doctor" since I'm planning on it, writing about it, and have a website devoted to the concept.

    I would guess most everyone here knows a physician who was no longer working by 45. I know one who finished residency and never worked again. I'll bet she was 29. And yes, she was married to another doctor. Others are forced into "retirement" due to legal issues or substance abuse -- I know a number of those, sadly.

    It is not easy to put yourself in a position to do so, particularly if you're also supporting a family. Here's my guide on how to retire by 45 if anyone's looking for a roadmap.

     

     

    Leave a comment:


  • TheHappyPhilosopher
    replied








    In fact I know of none. 
    Click to expand…


    Well, now you know one.

     
    Click to expand…


    Actually I’m not referring to people who think about possibly retiring in 1-2 years but those who actually *have* pulled the plug (I think there’s a big difference)

    its pretty telling that no one here knows of someone who actually retired at age 45 or so, im just trying to figure out why that is.
    Click to expand...


    I know many docs that 'retired' before 45. I'm married to one.

    I know several (all women) who quit medicine to be a SAHM.

    I know several that quit medicine to go do something else (coaching, finance, start a business, etc).

    Many who are miserable could easily do it, but are addicted to the lifestyle, or have a spouse who is.

    Many stay on because they are fearful of the unknown, or don't know what they would do with their time.

    Many keep working because it is really hard to turn off that income stream even when you have enough or are close to it.

    Once FI is achieved many people cut back to part-time (which for many feels like a perpetual vacation after getting killed for so many years) and work for luxuries.

    Most fall into the trap of the sunk cost fallacy and feel like they need to keep working to somehow balance out the universe.

    Some feel shame or guilt about using the resources of a medical education and work to avoid these feelings (worst reason to keep going IMHO).

    If I end up retiring before 45 I'll let you know

    Leave a comment:


  • Complete_newbie
    replied
    That's fine but you called it questionable (as in risky) not inconvenient. Big difference.

    Leave a comment:


  • fatlittlepig
    replied




    I called the OP troll because your tone is like “God! why can’t doctors retire? They must suck! why aren’t they investing and just do this or that” infact here is an excerpt from your prior post (yea I looked it up to make a point)

    • lives below their means (saving aggressively, >>50% take home)

    • invests aggressively (not risky investments per se, but investing large amounts of money monthly)

    • avoiding real estate, and other questionable investments

    • avoiding financial advisors/products

    • DIY mentality, very limited amount of outsourcing


    Sorry but considering RE questionable is dumb. That shows lack of investing knowledge to be honest.

    You are not a troll, but not every doctor is going to follow your philosophy. Also majority docs have good income not outstanding income to just retire at 40 + need financial freedom not just independence + just like medicine + got nothing to retire to that early + still got young kids.

    My 2 cents.
    Click to expand...


    Sounds like I hit a nerve but that wasn't my intention.

    And yes, IMHO real estate is not a great investment in terms of the work and effort required. I would rather click a few buttons on the fidelity/vanguard website and invest my $$.

    Leave a comment:


  • Complete_newbie
    replied
    I called the OP troll because your tone is like "God! why can't doctors retire? They must suck! why aren't they investing and just do this or that" infact here is an excerpt from your prior post (yea I looked it up to make a point)

    • lives below their means (saving aggressively, >>50% take home)

    • invests aggressively (not risky investments per se, but investing large amounts of money monthly)

    • avoiding real estate, and other questionable investments

    • avoiding financial advisors/products

    • DIY mentality, very limited amount of outsourcing


    Sorry but considering RE questionable is dumb. That shows lack of investing knowledge to be honest.

    You are not a troll, but not every doctor is going to follow your philosophy. Also majority docs have good income not outstanding income to just retire at 40 + need financial freedom not just independence + just like medicine + got nothing to retire to that early + still got young kids.

    My 2 cents.

    Leave a comment:


  • VagabondMD
    replied




    perhaps lack of hobbies for some….also many in their 40s still have kids in school and therefore still need to be around the house until they go to college. Hard to go spend that month in Europe galavanting around when your kids are back home in middle school. I think its better to work part time or do locums in your 40s if you can afford it. I’m planning on doing this starting July 2018.
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    I completely agree. When our freshman daughter graduates high school in three years, we are both quitting our jobs, likely downsizing, and maybe even leaving town. We still have to be here, so we might as well be working. I am going to go part time later in 2017. I hope to do a lot of galavanting in the fall of 2020!

    Leave a comment:

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