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Why don\'t more MDs retire early (40\'s)? Do you know any?

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  • Craigy
    replied







    If you have a blog about early retirement, I think it’s a fair question for discussion whether you yourself will actually retire from medicine in your 40’s…
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    Why?  Retiring in your 50s is retiring early as well, since full retirement age as defined by the government is 67 today and you don’t qualify for either SS or Medicare if you retire in your 50s.  And retiring in your 50s is a lot more financially feasible for most people (especially those with kids who are trying to pay for their offspring’s college).  A blogger who retires in their 50s is retiring early, so why be so fixated on retiring earlier than that as if it’s some sort of test a “real” early retirement blogger must pass to have credibility?
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    +1

    Living responsibly, investing well and planning to have a very comfortable retirement in your 50s or 60s means that you'll probably be able to retire in your 40s, but that doesn't mean you have to retire in your 40s.

    Leave a comment:


  • Craigy
    replied







    Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They’re called women ?

    Seriously though, only reason an MD would typically retire that early is due to some disability or because the MD had enough money or other income to no longer need to work.  For the habitual saver who loves to put money away, retiring that early is asking that saver to stop saving and give up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not going to happen.

    The only MDs I know of that have retired that early are MDs married to other MDs who no longer need the money and prefer to stay home with kids etc.  Even then, only a handful.  Too much time and effort invested, student loans accrued, etc. to hang it up so quickly.  And then most are happy with their jobs, are the primary breadwinners in their family, have to support a lavish lifestyle they’ve been living since college, etc. etc.
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    Craigy- first sentence is totally uncool.  For as many as there are 20/30 something females who are “retired”, there are plenty of 20/30 something males who have “failed to launch”.   Also, there are plenty of SAHD married to female MDs who are sole breadwinners.  Its like sex and reproduction, it takes two to tango. Please reconsider.

    Interestingly, I recently read about a woman, who at age 69, did not want to retire.  Furthermore, she has never taken a backseat and even tolerated some poorly made choices from her counterpart. Instead, she was willing to continue to put effort into the work which she has committed more than half her life towards.  But, alas, what do we have now……

     
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    The facts are the facts no matter how much you reconsider or how often you tango.  

    The 20s, 30s, 40s who voluntarily retire, cut back their hours or work part time tend to be female.  Deciding to be a full-time parent is a great thing and a great luxury.  You shouldn't shame, discourage or otherwise be offended by women who decide that's what they want to do.

     

    Leave a comment:

  • VagabondMD
    Radiologist (retired)

  • VagabondMD
    replied







    If you have a blog about early retirement, I think it’s a fair question for discussion whether you yourself will actually retire from medicine in your 40’s…
    Click to expand…


    Why?  Retiring in your 50s is retiring early as well, since full retirement age as defined by the government is 67 today and you don’t qualify for either SS or Medicare if you retire in your 50s.  And retiring in your 50s is a lot more financially feasible for most people (especially those with kids who are trying to pay for their offspring’s college).  A blogger who retires in their 50s is retiring early, so why be so fixated on retiring earlier than that as if it’s some sort of test a “real” early retirement blogger must pass to have credibility?
    Click to expand...


    If you had asked me 20 years ago (age 31), I would have said that I expect to retire from practice around age 55, assuming a 25 year career. This was before FIRE, blogs, podcasts, MMM, etc. If you ask me today, I will say that I plan to retire from practice around age 55 (after working part time for a few years). I do not consider this to be "early retirement" rather than the plan all along. I almost pulled the trigger too soon, a little while back-- not too soon from a financial standpoint, but too soon from a "what the heck am I going to do now?" standpoint.

    Leave a comment:

  • artemis
    Physician (Pathologist)

  • artemis
    replied




    If you have a blog about early retirement, I think it’s a fair question for discussion whether you yourself will actually retire from medicine in your 40’s...
    Click to expand...


    Why?  Retiring in your 50s is retiring early as well, since full retirement age as defined by the government is 67 today and you don't qualify for either SS or Medicare if you retire in your 50s.  And retiring in your 50s is a lot more financially feasible for most people (especially those with kids who are trying to pay for their offspring's college).  A blogger who retires in their 50s is retiring early, so why be so fixated on retiring earlier than that as if it's some sort of test a "real" early retirement blogger must pass to have credibility?

    Leave a comment:

  • DarrVao777
    Member

  • DarrVao777
    replied




    If you have a blog about early retirement, I think it’s a fair question for discussion whether you yourself will actually retire from medicine in your 40’s, I mentioned this since it relates to this thread.  I know there is a sensitive person on the thread who thinks I am trolling but I stand by everything I’ve written respectfully.

    fatlittlepig
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    It depends on your interpretation. I interpret his blog as a roadmap on how to become financially independent and how to be able to retire early.

    I don't think it necessarily requires pulling the trigger on actually retiring early.

    In my case, I'm happy to read his blog, utilize his tips, but for now, I plan on working until 65. Doesn't make his blog any less relevant to me.

    Leave a comment:

  • fatlittlepig
    Member

  • fatlittlepig
    replied
    If you have a blog about early retirement, I think it's a fair question for discussion whether you yourself will actually retire from medicine in your 40's, I mentioned this since it relates to this thread.  I know there is a sensitive person on the thread who thinks I am trolling but I stand by everything I've written respectfully.

    fatlittlepig

    Leave a comment:


  • G
    replied
    I just finished a 4 week vacation to come back to work 13 of the 28 days this month.  Clearly I'm a FIRE failure because I still choose to practice medicine.

    Leave a comment:

  • Complete_newbie
    Member

  • Complete_newbie
    replied











    @PoF – I mean slippery slope though no? One more year…just one more and soon you realize its a string of 10 years. 
    Click to expand…


    Believe me, I know. It’s a discussion my wife and I have at least monthly. Really just vacillating between 2018 and 2019 exit dates, and whether or not to explore a half-time option.
    Click to expand…


    not meant to be a personal attack. but I doubt you will have the guts to actually pull the trigger and fully retire. i do like your blog though.
    Click to expand…


    Oooh, he’s calling you out.

    So here’s the question for the internet retirement police. If he quits practicing but keeps blogging is that “fully retiring” or not?
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    lol. WCI I read this as (following the "tone" comment): how you like me now?!

    Leave a comment:

  • The White Coat Investor
    Founder

  • The White Coat Investor
    replied








    @PoF – I mean slippery slope though no? One more year…just one more and soon you realize its a string of 10 years. 
    Click to expand…


    Believe me, I know. It’s a discussion my wife and I have at least monthly. Really just vacillating between 2018 and 2019 exit dates, and whether or not to explore a half-time option.
    Click to expand…


    not meant to be a personal attack. but I doubt you will have the guts to actually pull the trigger and fully retire. i do like your blog though.
    Click to expand...


    Oooh, he's calling you out.

    So here's the question for the internet retirement police. If he quits practicing but keeps blogging is that "fully retiring" or not?

    Leave a comment:

  • anontoday
    Member

  • anontoday
    replied




    Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They’re called women ?

    Seriously though, only reason an MD would typically retire that early is due to some disability or because the MD had enough money or other income to no longer need to work.  For the habitual saver who loves to put money away, retiring that early is asking that saver to stop saving and give up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not going to happen.

    The only MDs I know of that have retired that early are MDs married to other MDs who no longer need the money and prefer to stay home with kids etc.  Even then, only a handful.  Too much time and effort invested, student loans accrued, etc. to hang it up so quickly.  And then most are happy with their jobs, are the primary breadwinners in their family, have to support a lavish lifestyle they’ve been living since college, etc. etc.
    Click to expand...


    Craigy- first sentence is totally uncool.  For as many as there are 20/30 something females who are "retired", there are plenty of 20/30 something males who have "failed to launch".   Also, there are plenty of SAHD married to female MDs who are sole breadwinners.  Its like sex and reproduction, it takes two to tango. Please reconsider.

    Interestingly, I recently read about a woman, who at age 69, did not want to retire.  Furthermore, she has never taken a backseat and even tolerated some poorly made choices from her counterpart. Instead, she was willing to continue to put effort into the work which she has committed more than half her life towards.  But, alas, what do we have now......

     

     

    Leave a comment:

  • Complete_newbie
    Member

  • Complete_newbie
    replied
    @FIREshrink

    I think threshold to say "I can retire" then should be $120,000 if you want to spend that much.

    Heck as a resident I CAN retire now. Just would have to not have a kid, live in the $800 apartment + make loan payments all from RE income. Problem solved.

    People forget that the word flexibility can be stretched to infinity. That stretch factor decides when enough is enough. Too random to quantify. In fact recent reading for 4% withdrawal rate seems bogus to me.

    Leave a comment:

  • FIREshrink
    Member

  • FIREshrink
    replied




    I know one who sold his company at 50 and retired not because he didn’t like practicing, but because the liability was too much. He was simply adding liability without sufficient compensation to be worth the liability. And he wanted to spend time with his kids and run more rivers.

    The only ones I know who retired in their 40s are people I know online.

    It is very uncommon for three reasons:

    1) Most docs aren’t savvy enough financially to pull it off

    2) Many of those who are actually like their job

    3) It requires serious financial sacrifices to retire at that age as a doc. Unless you detest your job, perhaps those sacrifices aren’t worth it. While some espouse the benefits of financial independence, which are very real, the main benefit is the ability to retire early. If you don’t need/want that, FI isn’t all that life changing. So as you approach your number, why not sit back, evaluate your life, figure out what you want and if it turns out that what you want to do includes something that pays you well, loosen up the purse strings a bit if there are purchases that would increase your happiness.

    This post discusses some of the sacrifices: https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/14-reasons-why-you-shouldn%E2%80%99t-retire-early/
    Click to expand...


    WCI hit the nail on the head with point number 3. Even doing everything right, you need a good dose of luck and you probably need to make enormous sacrifices around family and personal satisfactions to achieve retirement in your early 40s. I've done 'everything right' and I've been pretty lucky and I could retire now (age 43) - but only if we spent $50,000 per year instead of $120,000. The reason is that health care alone would cost us $30,000 and my portfolio could support an $80,000 per year spending at 3% SWR. Well, dropping from $120k per year to $50k per year is an enormous decrease in quality of life. It would mean no traveling, moving to a very small house, pulling the kids out of most of their activities, eating a beans and rice diet, canceling cable and internet and newspaper subscriptions, etc. I really don't see the point of living like that just so I can retire. I like my job. I work 4 days per week. My work is rewarding and mostly has stable hours. I have input into policy-making at my hospital and in my multi-state organization through various leadership positions. It's all good.

    I can drop to 3 days per week and may do that soon. I may go to 2 days per week by my late 40s. Or maybe I won't, and I'll just take a pay cut for more vacation (I get 8 weeks now). FI can mean a lot of things, including flexibility. It doesn't have to mean quitting.

    Leave a comment:

  • Complete_newbie
    Member

  • Complete_newbie
    replied




    I continue to return to the thesis in the OP that financially savvy necessarily implies early retirement. Or the mindset that one should work as hard as possible and save as much as possible early in one’s career so that he/she can get out as early as possible. In fact, I wonder if having that as an objective is self-fulfilling. Humping at work, taking extra shifts, living like a miser and neglecting family, friends, and interests probably encourages one to get out ASAP because that lifestyle sucks.

    And again, retiring early is great, but you have to retire to something. Sitting around counting your money, waiting for the mailman and scrutinizing Vanguard’s ERs all day will get old very quickly.
    Click to expand...


    Very well said.

    Problem - as far as I am seeing from a senior resident perspective - is that of burn out. Not every field is kind on physicians cutting back to part time. I think most will agree that medicine is enjoyable if done in moderation.

    Leave a comment:

  • VagabondMD
    Radiologist (retired)

  • VagabondMD
    replied
    I continue to return to the thesis in the OP that financially savvy necessarily implies early retirement. Or the mindset that one should work as hard as possible and save as much as possible early in one's career so that he/she can get out as early as possible. In fact, I wonder if having that as an objective is self-fulfilling. Humping at work, taking extra shifts, living like a miser and neglecting family, friends, and interests probably encourages one to get out ASAP because that lifestyle sucks.

    And again, retiring early is great, but you have to retire to something. Sitting around counting your money, waiting for the mailman and scrutinizing Vanguard's ERs all day will get old very quickly.

    Leave a comment:

  • jjandjab
    Member

  • jjandjab
    replied
    I don't know any early retirees. In fact, all of the physicians with whom I have worked directly chose to work well into their 60's. Some were great with money, others I'm not so sure. I had a partner who was mad at 65 when our hospital closed and he had to retire... I still have lunch with him every month and at 68 he wishes he kept working in between going back and forth to his multimillion dollar house in St. Croix  (but he didn't want to move or update his skills, so...)

    I honestly just really like my career - I think of being a doctor as part of my life, not as just a job. I work hard, use my knowledge, earn a great living, spend some money on dumb stuff, save a lot and enjoy myself with my family. In this way, I am much more like WCI over Mr Money Mushtache or the Bogleheads - I have no desire to live on 24k or even 50k a year in "retirement".  I know that there are things about medicine that are a pain, but everyone has aspects of their job that stink. The coders at Google who play ping-pong and go to the gym during lunch have their own issues too I'm sure (well, maybe). And I think getting paid low-to-mid 6 figures (or more) for a skill that is always in demand is pretty darn nice and generally recession-proof

    Leave a comment:

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