Why don\'t more MDs retire early (40\'s)? Do you know any?

[VagabondMD]

jhwkr542 wrote:

Reasons I can think of:

1. People enjoy the work they do.

2. People enjoy the people they work with.

3. They make a lot of money doing it.

4. They like living the nicer lifestyle in exchange for working a little longer.

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#2 is a (non-financial) factor that rarely gets discussed. The people I work with, particularly the nurses and techs, are like family to me. I enjoy the connections, and without work, the daily interaction would be gone, and the relationships would fade.

[BurnedoutDoc]

First real paycheck at 35?

Obligation to society to use the skills that you have been trained for.  Waste of that big brain filled with knowledge.  All those people applying to medical school that didn't get in that would have worked for 30 years, you took their spot and only want to work 10.  Shortage of physicians in the U.S.  Occasional grateful patient (sometimes they even say thank you!).  Amazing stories like WCI saving a guy's life in a bar, like literally saving someone's life with your hands and brain, that is pretty cool.

 

 

[Zaphod]

I think the obvious has been mostly stated. Added to the fact that many really do enjoy their job and would be giving up significant income/investment opportunity, is that many just never took the time to consider it as its a super new concept to retire decades earlier as well. Given that when this gets discussed even here many respond that they would be bored, etc...it follows many dont have a plan of retiring to something, and without all of the above being considered it doesnt make any sense.

The rest of us are in the younger phases of this idea, and have yet to reach the specified goal, POF will be one of the first.

[Craigy]

Plenty MDs retire early.  Some even in their 20s and 30s.  They're called women

Seriously though, only reason an MD would typically retire that early is due to some disability or because the MD had enough money or other income to no longer need to work.  For the habitual saver who loves to put money away, retiring that early is asking that saver to stop saving and give up hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.  Not going to happen.

The only MDs I know of that have retired that early are MDs married to other MDs who no longer need the money and prefer to stay home with kids etc.  Even then, only a handful.  Too much time and effort invested, student loans accrued, etc. to hang it up so quickly.  And then most are happy with their jobs, are the primary breadwinners in their family, have to support a lavish lifestyle they've been living since college, etc. etc.

[fatlittlepig]

DMFA wrote:

Because I didn’t extend my education and training for eleven years after college only to work for ten?

I actually kinda dig this doctor thing. Might consider doing it for a while. Also, I like money. Why not earn some more?

…feeding the troll :-/

Someone care to explain to me why I am being labeled a "troll"

Doesn't bother me, I'm just more curious to know how what I wrote could be construed as a troll?

Great answers though.

[Sneezy]

Great thoughts above.

Also remember this decision is made at the margin.  While it is easy to think I want to retire at 45 (or 50 or whatever) when you actually come up to it, you face the decisions to either

1. Make the $$$ you have last the rest of your life

2. Work one more year during which you can save $$$ and see your investments grow (and need them to last one year)

Let's say you are a doc who makes $300k/year and has $3M saved.  If you retire 4% is $120k/year until you get to SS.  Not bad but not great

If you work one more year, save $100k and your portfolio grows by 5% you have 3.25M, increasing your draw by 10K and putting you one year closer to SS.

 

 

[kingsnake]

perhaps lack of hobbies for some....also many in their 40s still have kids in school and therefore still need to be around the house until they go to college. Hard to go spend that month in Europe galavanting around when your kids are back home in middle school. I think its better to work part time or do locums in your 40s if you can afford it. I'm planning on doing this starting July 2018.

[kingsnake]

Also, I think most cannot afford to retire in their 40s due to debt, divorce, poor saving/spending habits, good but not amazing salaries, etc.

[VagabondMD]

kingsnake wrote:

perhaps lack of hobbies for some….also many in their 40s still have kids in school and therefore still need to be around the house until they go to college. Hard to go spend that month in Europe galavanting around when your kids are back home in middle school. I think its better to work part time or do locums in your 40s if you can afford it. I’m planning on doing this starting July 2018.

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I completely agree. When our freshman daughter graduates high school in three years, we are both quitting our jobs, likely downsizing, and maybe even leaving town. We still have to be here, so we might as well be working. I am going to go part time later in 2017. I hope to do a lot of galavanting in the fall of 2020!

[Complete_newbie]

I called the OP troll because your tone is like "God! why can't doctors retire? They must suck! why aren't they investing and just do this or that" infact here is an excerpt from your prior post (yea I looked it up to make a point)

• lives below their means (saving aggressively, >>50% take home)


• invests aggressively (not risky investments per se, but investing large amounts of money monthly)


• avoiding real estate, and other questionable investments


• avoiding financial advisors/products


• DIY mentality, very limited amount of outsourcing

Sorry but considering RE questionable is dumb. That shows lack of investing knowledge to be honest.

You are not a troll, but not every doctor is going to follow your philosophy. Also majority docs have good income not outstanding income to just retire at 40 + need financial freedom not just independence + just like medicine + got nothing to retire to that early + still got young kids.

My 2 cents.

[fatlittlepig]

Complete_newbie wrote:

I called the OP troll because your tone is like “God! why can’t doctors retire? They must suck! why aren’t they investing and just do this or that” infact here is an excerpt from your prior post (yea I looked it up to make a point)

• lives below their means (saving aggressively, >>50% take home)


• invests aggressively (not risky investments per se, but investing large amounts of money monthly)


• avoiding real estate, and other questionable investments


• avoiding financial advisors/products


• DIY mentality, very limited amount of outsourcing

Sorry but considering RE questionable is dumb. That shows lack of investing knowledge to be honest.

You are not a troll, but not every doctor is going to follow your philosophy. Also majority docs have good income not outstanding income to just retire at 40 + need financial freedom not just independence + just like medicine + got nothing to retire to that early + still got young kids.

My 2 cents.

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Sounds like I hit a nerve but that wasn't my intention.

And yes, IMHO real estate is not a great investment in terms of the work and effort required. I would rather click a few buttons on the fidelity/vanguard website and invest my $$.

[Complete_newbie]

That's fine but you called it questionable (as in risky) not inconvenient. Big difference.

[TheHappyPhilosopher]

fatlittlepig wrote:

PhysicianOnFIRE wrote:

fatlittlepig wrote:

In fact I know of none. 

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Well, now you know one.

 

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Actually I’m not referring to people who think about possibly retiring in 1-2 years but those who actually *have* pulled the plug (I think there’s a big difference)

its pretty telling that no one here knows of someone who actually retired at age 45 or so, im just trying to figure out why that is.

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I know many docs that 'retired' before 45. I'm married to one.

I know several (all women) who quit medicine to be a SAHM.

I know several that quit medicine to go do something else (coaching, finance, start a business, etc).

Many who are miserable could easily do it, but are addicted to the lifestyle, or have a spouse who is.

Many stay on because they are fearful of the unknown, or don't know what they would do with their time.

Many keep working because it is really hard to turn off that income stream even when you have enough or are close to it.

Once FI is achieved many people cut back to part-time (which for many feels like a perpetual vacation after getting killed for so many years) and work for luxuries.

Most fall into the trap of the sunk cost fallacy and feel like they need to keep working to somehow balance out the universe.

Some feel shame or guilt about using the resources of a medical education and work to avoid these feelings (worst reason to keep going IMHO).

If I end up retiring before 45 I'll let you know

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

fatlittlepig wrote:

PhysicianOnFIRE wrote:

fatlittlepig wrote:

In fact I know of none. 

Click to expand…

Well, now you know one.

 

Click to expand…

Actually I’m not referring to people who think about possibly retiring in 1-2 years but those who actually *have* pulled the plug (I think there’s a big difference)

its pretty telling that no one here knows of someone who actually retired at age 45 or so, im just trying to figure out why that is.

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Oh, you want to know about early retired doctors. I still maintain I'm an "early retirement doctor" since I'm planning on it, writing about it, and have a website devoted to the concept.

I would guess most everyone here knows a physician who was no longer working by 45. I know one who finished residency and never worked again. I'll bet she was 29. And yes, she was married to another doctor. Others are forced into "retirement" due to legal issues or substance abuse -- I know a number of those, sadly.

It is not easy to put yourself in a position to do so, particularly if you're also supporting a family. Here's my guide on how to retire by 45 if anyone's looking for a roadmap.

 

 

[The White Coat Investor]

Complete_newbie wrote:

I called the OP troll because your tone is like “God! why can’t doctors retire? They must suck! why aren’t they investing and just do this or that” infact here is an excerpt from your prior post (yea I looked it up to make a point)

• lives below their means (saving aggressively, >>50% take home)


• invests aggressively (not risky investments per se, but investing large amounts of money monthly)


• avoiding real estate, and other questionable investments


• avoiding financial advisors/products


• DIY mentality, very limited amount of outsourcing

Sorry but considering RE questionable is dumb. That shows lack of investing knowledge to be honest.

You are not a troll, but not every doctor is going to follow your philosophy. Also majority docs have good income not outstanding income to just retire at 40 + need financial freedom not just independence + just like medicine + got nothing to retire to that early + still got young kids.

My 2 cents.

Click to expand...

Tone is always hard to judge on the internet. I've found it helps to always assume the best in those you interact with. You'll often be pleased to find out you're right and they had no intention of writing anything offensive.