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  • #46
















    Deposited all checks received since ~Thanksgiving, so will be taxed as 2017 not 2016 income.
    Click to expand…


    Be sure you understand the “Doctrine of Constructive Receipt!”

    That sounds like 2016 income to me.

    https://www.irs.gov/publications/p538/ar02.html
    Click to expand…


    You may well be right. However, a good accountant ought to know the rules and also the realities of how they are treated in practice. Mine is smart and experienced, and has advised me that this practice is common and benign. However, I will raise it with her again just to be sure. Thank you, WD!
    Click to expand…


    Ok.  I’m glad you will check with your accountant and appreciate my unsolicited advice.  I think your mind and plan has already been made, but that is fine.  I don’t want this forum to be a place to argue.  For the sake of other readers though, I wanted to elaborate a bit.  Doctors tend not to take accounting or business law so they don’t know things that are basic to other professionals.  The IRS requires us to report our gross income.  The 2016 gross income includes checks that were received in 2016.  You could have deposited them and they were part of your gross income.  That issue isn’t open to debate.  It is federal law.  Whether others comply or whether you would realistically get caught or whether it is worth a risk or whether a fine would be large or whether an auditor could prove it etc are all separate issues in my mind.  My view is that I want to comply with all laws both in letter and in spirit.  If it is black and white I don’t consult experts no matter how smart and experienced they are.  Ultimately, my name will go on the 1040 form.  I do think an experienced CPA can be helpful in gray areas that can be interpreted differently.  I just don’t think the definition of gross income is one of those gray areas.  Having said that there are legal ways to minimize federal income tax through income shifting/timing, etc.  For example, if I go to a conference in November 2016 but I don’t submit my receipts for reimbursement until January 2017 that would be part of my 2017 gross.  If I submitted them right away and received a reimbursement in December that would be 2016 gross income.  The date of putting the funds into a bank account have nothing to do with the definition of gross income.
    Click to expand…


    No, I have no wish to violate the law. I actually thought what I was doing was ok. And it was only when you were good enough to inform me of it that I heard of the concept of “Constructive Receipt”. Then, since I trust my accountant and rely on her representations, I wondered whether we had had a full enough discussion, and whether she had been telling me about the letter of the law or its interpretation. So I will talk to her about it. But let me ask you to make sure I understand  — if I receive a check from a patient on December 31 2016, but deposit it on January 4 2017, that money counts as 2016 income? I always use my bank statement which documents deposits in the calendar year as the “official” record of revenue for the year.
    Click to expand...


    That is technically more difficult, but what really matters is that you treat the same situation the same every year. They dont care at all in that situation. I say this from experience since I never get my December check until January, but my 1099 included it for the prior year. So now I count it as last years pay even though I receive it the next year, but I am consistent.

    Your accountant will say there is no such thing as white or black, just lots and lots of grey. They seem to be pretty comfortable doing all kinds of things that my superficial understanding of things makes me not comfortable with.

    Comment


    • #47







      I just hit a milestone.  I made 1 million totally passively since I quit ob and only work 3 days per week.  It happened Thursday.  This took 2.5 years.  Awesome the power of compounding.
      Click to expand…


      This is fantastic.  I’m sure we would all love to hear more about this.  Care to share anymore details?  Asset allocation? All within retirement accounts?  How much from dividends vs capital gains? Spend any of that, etc?
      Click to expand...


      Wealthy doc you asked for details so here they are.  2.5 years ago I transferred all my retirement assets from Merrill-lynch to vanguard. I mention that because it is very easy to see on vanguards personal performance page the following info.  Total personal investment returns which is broken down by income and market performance.  It also gives your rate of return.  When I did this I had hit my number of 5 million or so and I decided to not retire but just quit ob and work 3 days per week.  Since the vanguard numbers correlate with semi retirement I can say that I have made 1 million since I semi-retired.  I am still adding $6500 via catch up IRA.  I don't think this makes any difference.  I make enough to pay my life expenses working 3 days per week.  The money is reinvesting and hopefully negating my sequence of returns risk. My asset allocation is 64/35/1. Most of the money is in a taxable account.

      Comment


      • #48



















        Deposited all checks received since ~Thanksgiving, so will be taxed as 2017 not 2016 income.
        Click to expand…


        Be sure you understand the “Doctrine of Constructive Receipt!”

        That sounds like 2016 income to me.

        https://www.irs.gov/publications/p538/ar02.html
        Click to expand…


        You may well be right. However, a good accountant ought to know the rules and also the realities of how they are treated in practice. Mine is smart and experienced, and has advised me that this practice is common and benign. However, I will raise it with her again just to be sure. Thank you, WD!
        Click to expand…


        Ok.  I’m glad you will check with your accountant and appreciate my unsolicited advice.  I think your mind and plan has already been made, but that is fine.  I don’t want this forum to be a place to argue.  For the sake of other readers though, I wanted to elaborate a bit.  Doctors tend not to take accounting or business law so they don’t know things that are basic to other professionals.  The IRS requires us to report our gross income.  The 2016 gross income includes checks that were received in 2016.  You could have deposited them and they were part of your gross income.  That issue isn’t open to debate.  It is federal law.  Whether others comply or whether you would realistically get caught or whether it is worth a risk or whether a fine would be large or whether an auditor could prove it etc are all separate issues in my mind.  My view is that I want to comply with all laws both in letter and in spirit.  If it is black and white I don’t consult experts no matter how smart and experienced they are.  Ultimately, my name will go on the 1040 form.  I do think an experienced CPA can be helpful in gray areas that can be interpreted differently.  I just don’t think the definition of gross income is one of those gray areas.  Having said that there are legal ways to minimize federal income tax through income shifting/timing, etc.  For example, if I go to a conference in November 2016 but I don’t submit my receipts for reimbursement until January 2017 that would be part of my 2017 gross.  If I submitted them right away and received a reimbursement in December that would be 2016 gross income.  The date of putting the funds into a bank account have nothing to do with the definition of gross income.
        Click to expand…


        No, I have no wish to violate the law. I actually thought what I was doing was ok. And it was only when you were good enough to inform me of it that I heard of the concept of “Constructive Receipt”. Then, since I trust my accountant and rely on her representations, I wondered whether we had had a full enough discussion, and whether she had been telling me about the letter of the law or its interpretation. So I will talk to her about it. But let me ask you to make sure I understand  — if I receive a check from a patient on December 31 2016, but deposit it on January 4 2017, that money counts as 2016 income? I always use my bank statement which documents deposits in the calendar year as the “official” record of revenue for the year.
        Click to expand…


        That is technically more difficult, but what really matters is that you treat the same situation the same every year. They dont care at all in that situation. I say this from experience since I never get my December check until January, but my 1099 included it for the prior year. So now I count it as last years pay even though I receive it the next year, but I am consistent.

        Your accountant will say there is no such thing as white or black, just lots and lots of grey. They seem to be pretty comfortable doing all kinds of things that my superficial understanding of things makes me not comfortable with.
        Click to expand...


        That's sounds like the likely practical account of the matter, though WealthyDoc may well be right about the letter of the law. I have no 1099s or W-2s, it's all just cash from patients in the form of checks. I have done things this same way for years, so the practice meets your standard of treating the same situation the same way each year.
        My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFF...MwBiAAKd5N8qPg

        Comment


        • #49
          - Two call shifts since the New Year (including the one I'm currently working) on top of my regular work schedule

          - Funded my traditional IRA with plan for conversion to Roth

          - My wife and I both opened Delta Gold Amex's (our local airport is a Delta hub) for the 75k mile bonus, the first credit cards we've opened in almost 10 years

          - Finally settled on an asset allocation after finishing Richard Ferri's book

          Comment


          • #50




            – Two call shifts since the New Year (including the one I’m currently working) on top of my regular work schedule

            – Funded my traditional IRA with plan for conversion to Roth

            – My wife and I both opened Delta Gold Amex’s (our local airport is a Delta hub) for the 75k mile bonus, the first credit cards we’ve opened in almost 10 years

            – Finally settled on an asset allocation after finishing Richard Ferri’s book
            Click to expand...


            We use the Delta Skymiles card exclusively for just about everything.  We've gotten so many free flights or at least discounted with it.  Plus, if you spend enough or fly enough you get upgraded to a Silver or Gold Medallion status which gets you free upgraded seats on flights (if any are available).  They will bump you up to first class or Delta comfort for free.  I just earned silver medallion status, but haven't flown yet.  Hoping for a free first class seat sometime

            Comment

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