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Is Dental School worth 450K debt?

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  • honeycomb86
    replied
    http://www.dmdtoday.com/news/over-saturation-of-dentists-hygienists-a-mountain-problem-in-many-markets

    Leave a comment:


  • honeycomb86
    replied
    I'm also thinking of staying at my current job for a few more years and then applying to MBA programs. I attended a top undergrad and had a strong undergrad GPA. I took a practice exam for the GMAT and did decently---I think if I studied hard, I could do well. I am aiming to get into top 10-15 MBA programs.....With a MBA, you have so many career options...The problem with Dentistry or PA, is you are locked into the career for life....MBA programs are also much cheaper than Dental School

    Leave a comment:


  • honeycomb86
    replied
    Also a lot of new Dental Schools are opening or have already opened up recently

    http://www.dentistryiq.com/articles/apex360/2016/04/first-new-dental-school-in-new-york-state-in-nearly-50-years-to-open-fall-2016.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Vottomatic
    replied
    Guys I'm beginning to suspect something...

    Leave a comment:


  • honeycomb86
    replied




    Lots of specialty PAs make in the mid 100s. I know a derm PA who gets around 200k.

    I hated med school while I was in it, especially second year. It was so much work, and yet so boring in the classroom. I just knew there was something better on the horizon which kept me going through it.
    Click to expand...


    Oh wow, I didn't realize they made so much....

    Leave a comment:


  • DarrVao777
    replied










    I am not on the “what you love train”. While this seems plausible superficially, in all reality it probably doesnt actually have the effects or the size of them people wish or project onto their careers. Also, its an incredibly narrow and privileged point of view to take. How many people “love or have a passion” for what they do, the great great majority of things are mundane or intellectually vapid. Sure, some things are interesting but we really do underestimate peoples ability to adapt and change their reasoning and justification after the fact, which is the major reality. How many people didnt get their first choice or not in med school at all and are very happy and coincidentally against all odds love their job? A good number.

    Guarantee that a steady, secure high pay counts very very high in why people choose to become doctors. I went into it partly for that but mostly because I felt I wouldnt be bored by it…however, its mostly boring (thank god) because I know what Im doing and you dont get to live a life like House or a TV doc just solving interesting cases one at a time, youre part of the machine and are working.

    Whats the proportion of doctors that are unhappy, or commit suicide even? Its way too high, and it isnt because they lacked passion because most did or at least would have attested to that fact. Now that Im older I see I would have enjoyed several different fields of medicine and several different careers altogether, lots of interesting stuff out there, dont underestimate the adaptability of people. Sentiment and passion follows the path of life or else we’d all be terribly disappointed most of the time.
    Click to expand…


    I would have to disagree. I fully admit I chose my specialty because I perceived it to be lifestyle friendly and high paying at the same time. But I do love it (down to the mundane parts). And even on bad days, I like it. And at the very very least, I entered it with full enthusiasm (with the expectation that this will wane over time)

    The OP seems to be lacking in all areas:

    1. Doesn’t have an interest in the field from the beginning.

    2. Would be taking on a high debt burden for this lack of interest.

    3. Would be selecting a field that has a low income cap if employed.

    4. Doesn’t want to take on the risk / hassles of being an owner (or dare I say it, even a successful hard-working motivated dentist)

    5. Just has a general aura of “I don’t want to work for it”, “I don’t want to take risks”, but “I want high pay and high security”. Even with the last question, “How do I find something I love and still make a good income?”. You seriously want an anonymous internet forum to decide this for you? Whatever happened to some introspection and then putting in the hard work to realize it? I wouldn’t like having this conversation with an 18 year old let alone someone who appears to be in her late 20s / early 30s?

    (Apologies if this comes off as harsh. I’ve been working with a lot of med students and residents of late who reek of the same entitled aura. Maybe I’m projecting.)
    Click to expand…


    I dont take it as harsh, my comment was not at/to the OP directly, I dont pretend to know how that will go and agree with your general impressions. I was super gung ho about what I do as well, and generally like it, but I like all kinds of stuff. I was mainly saying we greatly misinterpret what comes first in the passion department. Its very easy for our brains to justify and make us believe we’re in love with something after we really dont have a choice, its pretty amazing. Choose something, and let confirmation bias do the rest.

    I also ended up changing what I thought I was going to do based on pay expectations, lifestyle and future likelihood of decreased ability to control the pay (though the market controls the pay instead of insurance) I receive, as well as the more morbid option to practice without the surgery side if injured. So far so good and havent had to worry about the last issue yet.

    The entitled seeming attitude and not wanting to work view of those behind me is one of the few things that has given me hope for an edge on competition in the future, nice if they just cant be bothered to work.
    Click to expand...


    Now that I re-read my post, it's confusing. The "harsh" tone was directed at the OP, not you

    But hey, wakeup calls are meant to be harsh!

    Leave a comment:


  • DMFA
    replied
    Lots of specialty PAs make in the mid 100s. I know a derm PA who gets around 200k.

    I hated med school while I was in it, especially second year. It was so much work, and yet so boring in the classroom. I just knew there was something better on the horizon which kept me going through it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mags
    replied
    Othopedic surgery. 140K base plus call pay (call pay is 1300/weekend, 240/night weeknight). Higher COL area.

    Leave a comment:


  • honeycomb86
    replied




    My father is a dentist. I thought about dental school and medical school, but ultimately became a PA. I enjoy what I do, work 40 hours a week and make about 160K/year. Pretty good return for only 2 years of school. 450K seems like way too much debt.
    Click to expand...


    How do you make 160K as a PA???

    Leave a comment:


  • Zaphod
    replied







    I am not on the “what you love train”. While this seems plausible superficially, in all reality it probably doesnt actually have the effects or the size of them people wish or project onto their careers. Also, its an incredibly narrow and privileged point of view to take. How many people “love or have a passion” for what they do, the great great majority of things are mundane or intellectually vapid. Sure, some things are interesting but we really do underestimate peoples ability to adapt and change their reasoning and justification after the fact, which is the major reality. How many people didnt get their first choice or not in med school at all and are very happy and coincidentally against all odds love their job? A good number.

    Guarantee that a steady, secure high pay counts very very high in why people choose to become doctors. I went into it partly for that but mostly because I felt I wouldnt be bored by it…however, its mostly boring (thank god) because I know what Im doing and you dont get to live a life like House or a TV doc just solving interesting cases one at a time, youre part of the machine and are working.

    Whats the proportion of doctors that are unhappy, or commit suicide even? Its way too high, and it isnt because they lacked passion because most did or at least would have attested to that fact. Now that Im older I see I would have enjoyed several different fields of medicine and several different careers altogether, lots of interesting stuff out there, dont underestimate the adaptability of people. Sentiment and passion follows the path of life or else we’d all be terribly disappointed most of the time.
    Click to expand…


    I would have to disagree. I fully admit I chose my specialty because I perceived it to be lifestyle friendly and high paying at the same time. But I do love it (down to the mundane parts). And even on bad days, I like it. And at the very very least, I entered it with full enthusiasm (with the expectation that this will wane over time)

    The OP seems to be lacking in all areas:

    1. Doesn’t have an interest in the field from the beginning.

    2. Would be taking on a high debt burden for this lack of interest.

    3. Would be selecting a field that has a low income cap if employed.

    4. Doesn’t want to take on the risk / hassles of being an owner (or dare I say it, even a successful hard-working motivated dentist)

    5. Just has a general aura of “I don’t want to work for it”, “I don’t want to take risks”, but “I want high pay and high security”. Even with the last question, “How do I find something I love and still make a good income?”. You seriously want an anonymous internet forum to decide this for you? Whatever happened to some introspection and then putting in the hard work to realize it? I wouldn’t like having this conversation with an 18 year old let alone someone who appears to be in her late 20s / early 30s?

    (Apologies if this comes off as harsh. I’ve been working with a lot of med students and residents of late who reek of the same entitled aura. Maybe I’m projecting.)
    Click to expand...


    I dont take it as harsh, my comment was not at/to the OP directly, I dont pretend to know how that will go and agree with your general impressions. I was super gung ho about what I do as well, and generally like it, but I like all kinds of stuff. I was mainly saying we greatly misinterpret what comes first in the passion department. Its very easy for our brains to justify and make us believe we're in love with something after we really dont have a choice, its pretty amazing. Choose something, and let confirmation bias do the rest.

    I also ended up changing what I thought I was going to do based on pay expectations, lifestyle and future likelihood of decreased ability to control the pay (though the market controls the pay instead of insurance) I receive, as well as the more morbid option to practice without the surgery side if injured. So far so good and havent had to worry about the last issue yet.

    The entitled seeming attitude and not wanting to work view of those behind me is one of the few things that has given me hope for an edge on competition in the future, nice if they just cant be bothered to work.

    Leave a comment:


  • DarrVao777
    replied




    I am not on the “what you love train”. While this seems plausible superficially, in all reality it probably doesnt actually have the effects or the size of them people wish or project onto their careers. Also, its an incredibly narrow and privileged point of view to take. How many people “love or have a passion” for what they do, the great great majority of things are mundane or intellectually vapid. Sure, some things are interesting but we really do underestimate peoples ability to adapt and change their reasoning and justification after the fact, which is the major reality. How many people didnt get their first choice or not in med school at all and are very happy and coincidentally against all odds love their job? A good number.

    Guarantee that a steady, secure high pay counts very very high in why people choose to become doctors. I went into it partly for that but mostly because I felt I wouldnt be bored by it…however, its mostly boring (thank god) because I know what Im doing and you dont get to live a life like House or a TV doc just solving interesting cases one at a time, youre part of the machine and are working.

    Whats the proportion of doctors that are unhappy, or commit suicide even? Its way too high, and it isnt because they lacked passion because most did or at least would have attested to that fact. Now that Im older I see I would have enjoyed several different fields of medicine and several different careers altogether, lots of interesting stuff out there, dont underestimate the adaptability of people. Sentiment and passion follows the path of life or else we’d all be terribly disappointed most of the time.
    Click to expand...


    I would have to disagree. I fully admit I chose my specialty because I perceived it to be lifestyle friendly and high paying at the same time. But I do love it (down to the mundane parts). And even on bad days, I like it. And at the very very least, I entered it with full enthusiasm (with the expectation that this will wane over time)

    The OP seems to be lacking in all areas:

    1. Doesn't have an interest in the field from the beginning.

    2. Would be taking on a high debt burden for this lack of interest.

    3. Would be selecting a field that has a low income cap if employed.

    4. Doesn't want to take on the risk / hassles of being an owner (or dare I say it, even a successful hard-working motivated dentist)

    5. Just has a general aura of "I don't want to work for it", "I don't want to take risks", but "I want high pay and high security". Even with the last question, "How do I find something I love and still make a good income?". You seriously want an anonymous internet forum to decide this for you? Whatever happened to some introspection and then putting in the hard work to realize it? I wouldn't like having this conversation with an 18 year old let alone someone who appears to be in her late 20s / early 30s?

    (Apologies if this comes off as harsh. I've been working with a lot of med students and residents of late who reek of the same entitled aura. Maybe I'm projecting.)

    Leave a comment:


  • Zaphod
    replied
    I am not on the "what you love train". While this seems plausible superficially, in all reality it probably doesnt actually have the effects or the size of them people wish or project onto their careers. Also, its an incredibly narrow and privileged point of view to take. How many people "love or have a passion" for what they do, the great great majority of things are mundane or intellectually vapid. Sure, some things are interesting but we really do underestimate peoples ability to adapt and change their reasoning and justification after the fact, which is the major reality. How many people didnt get their first choice or not in med school at all and are very happy and coincidentally against all odds love their job? A good number.

    Guarantee that a steady, secure high pay counts very very high in why people choose to become doctors. I went into it partly for that but mostly because I felt I wouldnt be bored by it...however, its mostly boring (thank god) because I know what Im doing and you dont get to live a life like House or a TV doc just solving interesting cases one at a time, youre part of the machine and are working.

    Whats the proportion of doctors that are unhappy, or commit suicide even? Its way too high, and it isnt because they lacked passion because most did or at least would have attested to that fact. Now that Im older I see I would have enjoyed several different fields of medicine and several different careers altogether, lots of interesting stuff out there, dont underestimate the adaptability of people. Sentiment and passion follows the path of life or else we'd all be terribly disappointed most of the time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mags
    replied
    My father is a dentist. I thought about dental school and medical school, but ultimately became a PA. I enjoy what I do, work 40 hours a week and make about 160K/year. Pretty good return for only 2 years of school. 450K seems like way too much debt.

    Leave a comment:


  • honeycomb86
    replied













    Alternative perspective, if you have a parent who is able to pay 450K total and you don’t need to take out loans—is it worth it then? Or ask parent for money, invest that money and do something you enjoy instead? (My parent is a Physician actually, lol).
    Click to expand…


    It is NOT worth it if you don’t love it. Doubt you’ll be able to stomach and weather the rigor of any professional school and training without having a passion for it. It’s hard work, then more work, then more and more work. If medicine/dentistry is solely a job for anyone, I feel sorry for them. It’s not worth the headache etc otherwise.
    Click to expand…


    Well I think Dentistry would be worth it even if I didn’t love it, IF the dental school I was admitted to was A LOT cheaper…I agree with everyone else on this forum, 450K is too much–especially since I was attracted to Dentistry mostly for financial reasons…I have a lot of friends who don’t really enjoy Medicine/Dentistry but just want a stable, high-paying job….Most of them are in med school right now…
    Click to expand…


    I give high high probability that your friends will NOT be happy in the years to come.  It seems easy to make decisions like that when one is young but for most of us that have experienced some life will likely agree that it’s an absolutely terrible reason to make a career decision.  Most young people have no idea the emotional and physical toll these professions take as well as the family and time sacrifice.  And they have no idea if the professions will continue to pay well; many physicians I know have seen their incomes drop by 30-35% in the past 6 years or so PLUS they are working more hours than before.

    It seems like you’ve already made up your mind.  There will probably be no other comment from me but let me state firmly and finally that making a decision to do dentistry simple for money knowing that you will not enjoy it will result in a miserable adult life.  It frankly is immature and foolish reasoning.  Sorry to be so harsh but you asked and you’ve read it here repeatedly.
    Click to expand...


    So how does one find out what they love to do and still make a good income?

    Leave a comment:


  • Hawkeye225
    replied










    Alternative perspective, if you have a parent who is able to pay 450K total and you don’t need to take out loans—is it worth it then? Or ask parent for money, invest that money and do something you enjoy instead? (My parent is a Physician actually, lol).
    Click to expand…


    It is NOT worth it if you don’t love it. Doubt you’ll be able to stomach and weather the rigor of any professional school and training without having a passion for it. It’s hard work, then more work, then more and more work. If medicine/dentistry is solely a job for anyone, I feel sorry for them. It’s not worth the headache etc otherwise.
    Click to expand…


    Well I think Dentistry would be worth it even if I didn’t love it, IF the dental school I was admitted to was A LOT cheaper…I agree with everyone else on this forum, 450K is too much–especially since I was attracted to Dentistry mostly for financial reasons…I have a lot of friends who don’t really enjoy Medicine/Dentistry but just want a stable, high-paying job….Most of them are in med school right now…
    Click to expand...


    I give high high probability that your friends will NOT be happy in the years to come.  It seems easy to make decisions like that when one is young but for most of us that have experienced some life will likely agree that it's an absolutely terrible reason to make a career decision.  Most young people have no idea the emotional and physical toll these professions take as well as the family and time sacrifice.  And they have no idea if the professions will continue to pay well; many physicians I know have seen their incomes drop by 30-35% in the past 6 years or so PLUS they are working more hours than before.

    It seems like you've already made up your mind.  There will probably be no other comment from me but let me state firmly and finally that making a decision to do dentistry simple for money knowing that you will not enjoy it will result in a miserable adult life.  It frankly is immature and foolish reasoning.  Sorry to be so harsh but you asked and you've read it here repeatedly.

    Leave a comment:

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