Prenuptial agreements

[Hatton]

My state is a common law marriage state.  You have to present yourself as married.  I dont think it is a certain number of years.  Joint checking, living together, introducing yourself as married etc.

[orangepink]

My boyfriend and I have been together for 2+ years and have been engaged for 9 months.  We're not rushing things mostly because of our career goals.  His mother keeps pestering me to set a date (but that's another thread hehe).  We have both agreed to get a pre-nup but really, we both have student loans.  I recently bought a house.  He bought a condo and he has a family inheritance but nothing major (its not zuckerberg rich).  But we've heard enough horror stories from friends and colleagues that we both agreed to get one.  One coworker suggested to get a pre-nup from legalzoom.com and just have it notarized.  Has anyone done that?  Will that hold up in case the worst happens?

[Hatton]

Not sure if it holds up well.  Several attorneys comment maybe they will pick up the thread.  I guess that depends on what you have going in and the income disparity.

[conniebird]

orangepink wrote:

My boyfriend and I have been together for 2+ years and have been engaged for 9 months.  We’re not rushing things mostly because of our career goals.  His mother keeps pestering me to set a date (but that’s another thread hehe).  We have both agreed to get a pre-nup but really, we both have student loans.  I recently bought a house.  He bought a condo and he has a family inheritance but nothing major (its not zuckerberg rich).  But we’ve heard enough horror stories from friends and colleagues that we both agreed to get one.  One coworker suggested to get a pre-nup from legalzoom.com and just have it notarized.  Has anyone done that?  Will that hold up in case the worst happens?

Click to expand...

I am no lawyer, but the best pre-nups that hold up in court showed that both parties had legal counseling (can't be paid by the other party). I would do it properly, especially since you both own some pre-marital assets. Would also take this time to make financial goals as a couple - my future husband and I just did one.

[orangepink]

What if we avail of the legal clinics available in our nearby law school?

[Son of a Doctor]

I've prepared a handful of pre-nuptial agreements and post-nuptial agreements for physicians. The conversations between the bride and groom-to-be are hard, and it strains the relationship at a time when most couples are experiencing all the euphoria of an upcoming wedding. Also, the negotiations can get contentious, which only furthers the strain as everyone fights over "what-ifs", none of which are pleasant.

That said, if some of those "what-ifs" in the event of a divorce, such as the spouse getting a significant property settlement and monthly alimony that wipes out the physician financially, are not palatable, then you should get an agreement in place that provides some protection.  I have seen a few situations in which the non-physician party is so protective of their financial rights in the event of a divorce, that it raised a red flag as to the motives of that party.  On the other hand, if the agreement is too one sided in favor of the physician, then it is much less likely to be enforced. Therefore, the benefit of a pre-nuptial agreement is that both parties can have reasonable protection against the extremes of what a Court can do, and that is one way to potentially pitch it to a fiance.

-Richard

[Son of a Doctor]

orangepink wrote:

What if we avail of the legal clinics available in our nearby law school?

Click to expand...

From my experience, a law school clinic will not handle something like this, nor would you want them to, as it requires someone with experience both in contract law and divorce law in your state.  Every state is different, in terms of the likelihood of the agreement being enforced, what disclosures need to be made to make it potentially enforceable, and whether courts are more likely to throw out one-sided pre-nuptial agreements. Consider reaching out to at least three attorneys who handle prenuptial agreements in your area.  Ask them about their average fee for such a contract and their opinion on how enforceable they are in your court system (it can even vary county to county).  In addition to gauging their personality, you also want to see how responsive they are.  The ones who take days to get back to you for an initial consultation may be great attorneys, but they will likely continue to be slow to respond, if that is a big deal to you.

-Richard

[Ivy]

We didn't get a prenup.  I was a resident and ~$75k in student loan debt.  She had a car note, but was otherwise debt-free.  She also had a job that paid more than mine.  In retrospect, she should have insisted on a prenup to protect herself from me!

If my wife dies (or decides to kill me) I would definitely get a prenup before getting remarried.  We've worked WAY too hard to risk what we've saved together.

[Noah]

https://www.lawdepot.com/contracts/prenuptial-agreement/#.V73c8pMrKL4

Has a good prenup that you can make up for under $30. Still needs legal counsel on both sides to be fully valid and less likely to be thrown out. I'll likely be using one.

[Jenn]

Why exactly is it important to have one if one partner has a child from a previous marriage? My boyfriend and I don't feel the need for one. He has a son from a previous marriage and pays child support. That won't change with us getting married.

Right now I make more but that won't necessarily be the case long term. We are on the same page financially and have discussed financial goals at length including out FIRE number. I just don't see the need. I also don't have any assets - just student loans which I will pay off myself.

So if bf wishes his kid to inherit most of his prior fortune from him if he dies, you don't override that by claiming your spouse portion of that bit. My cousins widowed Dad remarried and then died. His kids never got any of mom or dad's fortunes, his new step-kids got it all eventually.

[Kamban]

Before contributing to a 4 year old thread I wanted to make sure that I did not say anything previously and am repeating myself saying the same thing, as I get older.

Well, I did not have a prenup and have not had a post nup either.

[Guest]

I was wondering if I have a ROTH IRA before marriage, stop contributing when I get married if I would have to split the ROTH IRA with my spouse if we get a divorce.
What about earnings during the marriage?

[jfoxcpacfp]

I was wondering if I have a ROTH IRA before marriage, stop contributing when I get married if I would have to split the ROTH IRA with my spouse if we get a divorce.
What about earnings during the marriage?

Doubtful, even in a CP state. But you can never predict what will happen when attorneys get involved and and heated emotions stoke the flames.

If this is a first marriage for you both with no kids from priors, though, I would lean toward wondering about the wisdom of requiring such an agreement before taking lifetime vows. I know the arguments for doing so, but it is a very difficult discussion about divorcing before you’re married and can cause such hurt and distrust. Impo, if you feel the need to do so, it could be a warning sign.

Again, if this is not the first marriage and there are children from a prior relationship, I believe a pre-nup is a practical necessity.

Again again - this is only MPO.

[Guest]

Ok thanks for the advice just to be clear

1) Any earnings and contributions on a roth IRA prior to marriage are considered separate property.
2) Any earnings on contributions prior to marriage while married are still considered separate property. In other words say you had 100k in a roth IRA prior to marriage it blossoms to 300k while married. God forbid you get divorced provided you owe no alimony payments you end up with the 300k.
3) Any income earned during marriage despite a prenup agreement to keep it separate can still be considered fair game in a separation

These are more FYI questions that were posed to me by a friend and I thought to ask this on this forum for advice.

[jfoxcpacfp]

Ok thanks for the advice just to be clear

1) Any earnings and contributions on a roth IRA prior to marriage are considered separate property.
2) Any earnings on contributions prior to marriage while married are still considered separate property. In other words say you had 100k in a roth IRA prior to marriage it blossoms to 300k while married. God forbid you get divorced provided you owe no alimony payments you end up with the 300k.
3) Any income earned during marriage despite a prenup agreement to keep it separate can still be considered fair game in a separation

These are more FYI questions that were posed to me by a friend and I thought to ask this on this forum for advice.

1. Usually
2. Typically
3. Who knows? Depends on the pre-nup agreement, the state, the attorneys, karma, friends in high places (esp the judge), and so on.