Military GI Bill question

[cathy2934]

Hello,

I read through WCIs old post related to the military and supplementing for residency using the GI bill.  I had a question related to this that the comments had hit upon but no one had a validated answer and it was left still in the air.

Does our time either during military residency or paying back our ADSO while on active duty count toward the 36 months for the 911GI bill?

I am interested in pursuing an MBA that is why I am wondering, and would like the yellow ribbon program.

I would also secondarily be interested in what other's thoughts are on pursuing an MBA as a doctor.

[DMFA]

Your military active duty should count toward satisfying it, including residency.

The guy who wrote the article had separated after completing his tour as a FS before going to residency, so that was how he qualified for it.  You can't use it if you're still in the service for military residency; you have to have had an honorable discharge.

The nebulous portion is that transferring your benefits to dependents incurs a 4-year ADSC.  Whether that's consecutive or concurrent, even the AF Physician Education Branch doesn't seem to know... https://kx2.afms.mil/kj/kx4/AFPhysicianEducation/Documents/AD_GME_OVERVIEW.pdf#search=gi%20bill (requires CAC)

[RadDoc6876]

Yes.  Active duty time is active duty time, regardless of whether you are paying back an ADSO or in residency, etc.

[goatmom]

Well, this is my first post so take it for what it is worth.  I am pretty sure that your time paying back ADSO does not count for GI Bill.  I know that is true for people doing ROTC or a service academy, so imagine it would be same for HPSP or USUHS.

[DMFA]

From AFI 36-2649, dated Oct 2014 and afaik not updated since (after checking http://www.benefits.va.gov/gibill/post911_transfer.asp and http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/134113p.pdf whose pages are up-to-date)

A13.5. Post-9/11 GI Bill Eligibility. The term Armed Services does not include the Individual Ready Reserve unless otherwise noted. The DVA is responsible for determining Post-9/11 education benefits. Generally, to be eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, Airmen must serve on active duty on or after 11 September 2001, for at least 30 continuous days when there is a discharge due to a service-connected disability; or, an aggregate period ranging from 90 days to 36 months or more.
A13.6. Eligibility Exclusions. The following periods of active duty are not qualifying active duty service for purposes of establishing eligibility for the Post-9/11 GI Bill:
A13.6.1. Active duty service completed on or before 10 September 2001;
A13.6.2. The Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC) for commissioning from a Service academy;
A13.6.3. The ADSC for an ROTC Scholarship;
A13.6.4. Service under Chapter 109 (Title 10 U.S.C.) counted for those participating in the Educational Loan Repayment Programs (ELRP);
A13.6.5. Full-time assignment by the Armed Forces to a civilian institution to pursue a program of education that was substantially the same as programs of education offered to civilians;
A13.6.6. Service as a cadet or midshipmen in one of the Service academies;
A13.6.7. Active duty for Initial Entry Training pursuant to enlistment in the Army National Guard, Air National Guard, Army Reserve, Naval Reserve, Air Force Reserve, Marine Corps Reserve, or Coast Guard Reserve [Table 1 (from DTM) NOTE states that if aggregate service is less than 24 months, initial entry training does not count as qualifying active duty];
A13.6.8. Service that was terminated because an Airman was a minor, was erroneously enlisted, or received a defective enlistment agreement;
A13.6.9. A period of Selected Reserve service used to establish eligibility for a Defense Intelligence Senior Executive Service position under 10 U.S.C. Section 1606 or an Intelligence Senior Level position under 10 U.S.C. Section 1607;
A13.6.10. A period of Selected Reserve service used to establish eligibility for entitlements under Chapter 30 of Title 38;
A13.6.11. Annual training conducted under authority of 10 U.S.C. section 10147 or 12301(b); and
A13.6.12. For purposes of Post-9/11 GI Bill, service in the Individual Ready Reserve is not qualifying service for either determination of eligibility or eligibility to transfer unused Post-9/11 GI Bill benefits.
A13.7. Duration of Eligibility. An Airman's eligibility for entitlement expires at the end of a 15- year period beginning on the Airman’s last date of discharge or release from active duty of at least 90 consecutive days (30 days if released or discharged for service-connected disability). The Director, Force Management Policy, AF/A1P, shall determine the last date of discharge or release, if such date cannot be clearly determined.

A13.18. Transferability of unused benefits to dependents.
A13.18.1. Eligibility.
A13.18.1.1. Any member of the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve) on or after August 1, 2009 who meets Post-9/11 GI Bill eligibility requirements and at the time of the approval of the member’s request to transfer entitlement to educational assistance the member meets one of the following:
A13.18.1.1.1. Has at least 6 years of service in the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve, NOAA Corps, or PHS) on the date of application and agrees to serve 4 additional years in the Air Force from the date of request, regardless of the number of months transferred, or
A13.18.1.1.2. Has at least 10 years of service in the Armed Forces (active duty and/or Selected Reserve, NOAA Corps, or PHS) on the date of application, is precluded by either Air Force policy (e.g., High Year Tenure (HYT)), DoD policy or statute from committing to 4 additional years of service and agrees to serve for the maximum amount of time allowed by such policy or statute.

So, the upshot:

• You can transfer after 6 years of active duty


• You agree to remain in up through 10 years of active duty (4 years from the date of transfer)


• HPSP time doesn't count


• Active-duty residency and fellowship do count


• Active-duty time spent to pay back HPSP time, residency time, and fellowship time do count


• Time spent to pay back ROTC or service academy time doesn't count

This is backed up by both the published guidelines and the experiences of the people around me, all of which I made sure to check before making this post - obv I'm not the be-all end-all authority since I'm not the administrator of the program, but I made sure to do my homework before saying things people might take for true.

[DMFA]

...as a follow-up to that, though, different people have different experiences depending on which bureaucrat is reviewing the paperwork - when I was buying my house four years ago, I had been issued a VA certificate of eligibility for a VA loan 3 months prior to closing which, on closing day, they decided to say wasn't valid.

[RadDoc6876]

I can tell you from experience I actually did the following:

- Med school on HPSP 2000-2004

- Residency at military hospital (active duty) 2004-2009

- ADSO service at 2 military hospitals 2009-2013

- Separated in June 2013, then used Post-9/11 GI Bill to supplement income during Fellowship 2013-14.  I received the monthly housing allowance for the 12 months of Fellowship, and the $1000 book allowance.  All that income was tax-free.

[DMFA]

RadDoc6876 wrote:

I can tell you from experience I actually did the following:

– Med school on HPSP 2000-2004

– Residency at military hospital (active duty) 2004-2009

– ADSO service at 2 military hospitals 2009-2013

– Separated in June 2013, then used Post-9/11 GI Bill to supplement income during Fellowship 2013-14.  I received the monthly housing allowance for the 12 months of Fellowship, and the $1000 book allowance.  All that income was tax-free.

Click to expand...

For others (obv RadDoc6876 knows this), this is the optimal course for people who separate and then do more GME out of the military who don't plan on transferring the benefit.  Note that if you use it for yourself, then all you need for 100% of the 3-year benefits is 3 years of service.  The extended terms only apply to those who plan to transfer the benefits to a family member.

[tum]

Seems like I am late to the game, but I cannot seem to find answers.

Active duty residency counts towards eligibility, so a 4 year residency should get me to 100% eligibility of the post9/11 go bill?

Once I hit 6 years Active Duty, I can transfer benefits to dependents.... the 4 years commitment is from the date of request? So this would mean if I still had a service commitment for other items such as ROTC and HPSP that I was serving after residency, the commitment for TEB would be concurrent with the others?

 

Answer would be greatly appreciated.

 

If this help: I have a 4 yr ROTC, 4 yr HPSP. Served 1 year Active Duty prior to starting a 4 year residency.

[Tuxedo]

tum wrote:

Seems like I am late to the game, but I cannot seem to find answers.

Active duty residency counts towards eligibility, so a 4 year residency should get me to 100% eligibility of the post9/11 go bill?

Once I hit 6 years Active Duty, I can transfer benefits to dependents…. the 4 years commitment is from the date of request? So this would mean if I still had a service commitment for other items such as ROTC and HPSP that I was serving after residency, the commitment for TEB would be concurrent with the others?

 

Answer would be greatly appreciated.

 

If this help: I have a 4 yr ROTC, 4 yr HPSP. Served 1 year Active Duty prior to starting a 4 year residency.

Click to expand...

Depends the source of your service obligation.  Time spent repaying your ROTC obligation does not count towards your eligibility.  Are you repaying your ROTC obligation in residency?

My understanding is that so far you are not eligible.

No personal experienced but based on the verbiage it seems like the same exclusions apply to transferring benefits.

[ENT Doc]

The time you are doing right now should count towards the 36 month requirement to get full benefits. If you or anyone else has questions as to your eligibility simply contact the VA and they will tell you and walk you through how to set up the online account.

As for the yellow ribbon program I don't think you're eligible for this while on active duty. I also highly discourage a full time MBA as a doctor or getting one from the military. I used the GI Bill while active to get my MBA from a top 15/20 school. PM me if you're interested in specifics or have other questions.

[nutty08]

RadDoc6876 wrote:

I can tell you from experience I actually did the following:

– Med school on HPSP 2000-2004

– Residency at military hospital (active duty) 2004-2009

– ADSO service at 2 military hospitals 2009-2013

– Separated in June 2013, then used Post-9/11 GI Bill to supplement income during Fellowship 2013-14.  I received the monthly housing allowance for the 12 months of Fellowship, and the $1000 book allowance.  All that income was tax-free.

Click to expand...

Are you sure this was the post911 bill? When I converted mine to the post911 in 2012 or so I remember this being a benefit I would lose. But at the time a lot of these policies weren’t worked out.

I also transfered benefits to my wife before 6yrs service but I had an ADSC that would cover the 6yrs+ the 4yrs obligation.

Theres also a time limit to transfer to family. I can’t recall if it’s 15 or 16yrs. When I got out my daughter was 2 and won’t be in college in time.

Final thought. In the past I’ve heard rumors of docs having trouble using their benefits for “lesser” degrees. For example getting a masters (MBA) as as they already hold a doctorate. Not sure if that is a policy that was clarified recently.

[ENT Doc]

There was never any stipulation that a doctor couldn't get a "lesser" degree, however that is defined. It has to be a qualifying institution. I know several military doctors, myself included, who used the post 911 GI Bill to get a MBA.

[nutty08]

ENT Doc wrote:

There was never any stipulation that a doctor couldn’t get a “lesser” degree, however that is defined. It has to be a qualifying institution. I know several military doctors, myself included, who used the post 911 GI Bill to get a MBA.

Click to expand...

I posted before seeing your initial reply. Just rumors floating around, probably local base “experts” and their interpretation. I never knew anyone personally who had trouble or successfully got it approved. Maybe I need to go get mine...

[CordMcNally]

I know nothing about the GI Bill but I just wanted to thank you for your service!