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  • #76


    i think you did a great thing creating this place. i think you are stretched thin. for some reason, you have a slightly thin skin when it comes to criticisms, which i think are 1)well intended and 2)actually do need to be contemplated. i think you need some time to consider which tasks you can offload. i know that is super hard. it may be that you have to pay someone to help you manage the empire. there are probably plenty of people who spend twice (five times?) the time on the forum that you do, only because they like hanging out. i don’t care about the financials of your website so i can’t possibly begin to understand what goes into the decision making process. really, with all due respect, the only part of your empire i care about is the forum. however, if you want to take the path that most successful forums do, moderation isn’t a benign small task that should be given to people like me who are 1)brand new here and 2)unknown quantities. you would really trust someone with the moderation responsibilities who has the ability to scare off new people, bully known posters with different philosophies, and delete and edit posts without vetting them? that’s my only concern with passive income becoming a moderator without participating at all. you have created something amazing here. but it’s like raising a kid. you don’t get the appreciation you deserve, and they don’t always do what you want, how you want, when you want. moderation is a thankless task. imo, it should really be carefully considered. i hope you can take these comments in a non critical, supportive way. if you are looking for suggestions, i think longevity and history of thoughtful non inflammatory posts are good place to start. i suggest in no particular order (and i’m sorry if this appears as if i’m volunteering anyone i’m not intending to)—vagabond, hatton1, dr mom, would be good places to start. they don’t ever post reactively or with a thin skin. they are always polite and helpful. they are here a lot. jmo, as always. lastly i don’t read chinese. ????
    Click to expand...


    Very well said.

    I think this forum works very well. Having different viewpoints without actually coming to blows is a fine line. Most of us self moderate and know which line to not cross. Most of it is because we value ourselves and because good taste and decorum states which is acceptable and which is not.

    WCI, you have done a fantastic job with the blog and forum. Do not take this the wrong way but sometimes you come across as angry at criticism even when the criticism is not valid. Take for example the number of ads. The poster felt there were too many ads for the content while you felt the actual numbers were more on your site than his. I think both are right. You on the physical number, and he on the blog value / ad ratio. Maybe a better option would be to state that you feel that the ads are appropriate at both sites and leave it at that. You are the owner and at some point should just brush things off.

    I also agree that moderation is a tough thankless job that should be given to only level headed long standing posters. I think q-school, hatton1 and Vagabond would make good moderators. And sometimes moderators have their off days.

    Best of luck in expanding your network.

     

    Comment


    • #77
      At first glance, I think the PassiveIncomeMD guy to me, does not fit with PoF and WCI the way I find the most value. His blogs from what I have read, are very much thinking of medicine as a hobby. The profession of medicine, where you give all of your 20s to invest all of your energy to get ‘the job’ means that you may not understand personal finance as much as the MBA that is in a similar financial position. What I love about this forum, WCI and PoF is that everyone starts with the premise that you have an opportinity with the money you make in compensation. My family is not interested in a side hustle. I am interested in ‘having a fair shake on Wall Street” as is the motto.

      I think when you talk about passive income, you are kind of saying, ‘and then you can be part of this multilevel marketing group’ when I really just came for financial advice, not to emulate your business model.

      That said- I’ll still consider this forum a great place for difficult questions and I’m sure this addition will make sense to many. The forum contributors who offer their advice on the forums are a natural resource that wouldn’t be easy to create.

      Good luck

      Comment


      • #78







        So 5 warnings and one is out?
        Click to expand…


        Yes, see Forum Policies and FAQs #6 under What are the forum policies?
        Click to expand...


        You guys make it sound so strict. Bear in mind that in two years nobody has yet even gotten the level 2 warning-i.e. the one week ban, much less been completely banned. (Except obvious spamming.)
        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

        Comment


        • #79










          So 5 warnings and one is out?
          Click to expand…


          Yes, see Forum Policies and FAQs #6 under What are the forum policies?
          Click to expand…


          You guys make it sound so strict. Bear in mind that in two years nobody has yet even gotten the level 2 warning-i.e. the one week ban, much less been completely banned. (Except obvious spamming.)
          Click to expand...


          I wasn't making it "sound" any way, just directing her to the policies you wrote. This was after @Vagabond made a comment about them. Apparently, he thinks he's had 2 warnings. Maybe level 2 is kind of a red badge of courage?
          Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

          Comment


          • #80





            i think you did a great thing creating this place. i think you are stretched thin. for some reason, you have a slightly thin skin when it comes to criticisms, which i think are 1)well intended and 2)actually do need to be contemplated. i think you need some time to consider which tasks you can offload. i know that is super hard. it may be that you have to pay someone to help you manage the empire. there are probably plenty of people who spend twice (five times?) the time on the forum that you do, only because they like hanging out. i don’t care about the financials of your website so i can’t possibly begin to understand what goes into the decision making process. really, with all due respect, the only part of your empire i care about is the forum. however, if you want to take the path that most successful forums do, moderation isn’t a benign small task that should be given to people like me who are 1)brand new here and 2)unknown quantities. you would really trust someone with the moderation responsibilities who has the ability to scare off new people, bully known posters with different philosophies, and delete and edit posts without vetting them? that’s my only concern with passive income becoming a moderator without participating at all. you have created something amazing here. but it’s like raising a kid. you don’t get the appreciation you deserve, and they don’t always do what you want, how you want, when you want. moderation is a thankless task. imo, it should really be carefully considered. i hope you can take these comments in a non critical, supportive way. if you are looking for suggestions, i think longevity and history of thoughtful non inflammatory posts are good place to start. i suggest in no particular order (and i’m sorry if this appears as if i’m volunteering anyone i’m not intending to)—vagabond, hatton1, dr mom, would be good places to start. they don’t ever post reactively or with a thin skin. they are always polite and helpful. they are here a lot. jmo, as always. lastly i don’t read chinese. ???? 
            Click to expand…


            Very well said.

            I think this forum works very well. Having different viewpoints without actually coming to blows is a fine line. Most of us self moderate and know which line to not cross. Most of it is because we value ourselves and because good taste and decorum states which is acceptable and which is not.

            WCI, you have done a fantastic job with the blog and forum. Do not take this the wrong way but sometimes you come across as angry at criticism even when the criticism is not valid. Take for example the number of ads. The poster felt there were too many ads for the content while you felt the actual numbers were more on your site than his. I think both are right. You on the physical number, and he on the blog value / ad ratio. Maybe a better option would be to state that you feel that the ads are appropriate at both sites and leave it at that. You are the owner and at some point should just brush things off.

            I also agree that moderation is a tough thankless job that should be given to only level headed long standing posters. I think q-school, hatton1 and Vagabond would make good moderators. And sometimes moderators have their off days.

            Best of luck in expanding your network.
            Click to expand...


            +1 on the ed being quite thin-skinned, grumpy, seems to take a lot of things very personally.  Probably the nature of an ER doc.    

            For what it's worth, on other successful forums usually the owner/admin is a bit more aloof.

            Of course it's the WCI forum owned by WCI, WCI's way or the highway.  Nothing wrong with that.  Only problem is, getting salty with things like well-intentioned criticism from quality long-time posters can lead to many of them choosing that highway option.

            Once the quality posters start leaving, you're left more and more with just the riff-raff, and it's a bit of a death spiral, particularly for a small community.

            Comment


            • #81













              This thread was supposed to be a welcome post for PIMD, somehow became criticize PIMD as well.  I guess that’s part of the internet exposure.  I still applaud everyone who blogs. I do not think it is as easy as it looks.  IT takes consistency, time commitment- All the replying and networking and trying to give the proper answer to be relevant and recognizable.  I do not have time to read all the blogs- more so, to write all that content.

              yes, I find this forum interesting.

               


              but a financial blog w/ tons of hits I would find it a little weird with no ads 
              Click to expand…


              investment manager that I follow ericcinnamond does not have any ads on his site.  I wonder if it is prohibited if you are in the financial industry.
              Click to expand…


              I think it speaks to the weight of WCI endorsement, and how much the members value WCI opinion.

              I hope in the future, they encourage participation in the forum before offering ‘membership’ or whatever this network is.  (as stated separately, i don’t read passive income blog or wci blog).

              if they add value to the forum, they are fully participating and adding to the collective experience.  then the addition would not be questioned.  apparently s/he’s going to moderate here, without even posting first if i recall the introductory email correctly.  i guess it makes sense as an owner or franchisee or whatever to call it.
              Click to expand…


              You know the “moderators’ club” is a coalition of the willing right? Want to moderate? You know where to find me. Only takes about 3 seconds to add you as a moderator.
              Click to expand…


              i think you did a great thing creating this place.  i think you are stretched thin.  for some reason, you have a slightly thin skin when it comes to criticisms, which i think are 1)well intended and 2)actually do need to be contemplated.  i think you need some time to consider which tasks you can offload.  i know that is super hard.  it may be that you have to pay someone to help you manage the empire.  there are probably plenty of people who spend twice (five times?) the time on the forum that you do, only because they like hanging out.

              i don’t care about the financials of your website so i can’t possibly begin to understand what goes into the decision making process.  really, with all due respect, the only part of your empire i care about is the forum.  however, if you want to take the path that most successful forums do, moderation isn’t a benign small task that should be given to people like me who are 1)brand new here and 2)unknown quantities.

              you would really trust someone with the moderation responsibilities who has the ability to scare off new people, bully known posters with different philosophies, and delete and edit posts without vetting them?   that’s my only concern with passive income becoming a moderator without participating at all.

              you have created something amazing here.  but it’s like raising a kid.  you don’t get the appreciation you deserve, and they don’t always do what you want, how you want, when you want.   moderation is a thankless task.  imo, it should really be carefully considered.  i hope you can take these comments in a non critical, supportive way.

              if you are looking for suggestions, i think longevity and history of thoughtful non inflammatory posts are good place to start.  i suggest in no particular order (and i’m sorry if this appears as if i’m volunteering anyone i’m not intending to)—vagabond, hatton1, dr mom, would be good places to start.  they don’t ever post reactively or with a thin skin.  they are always polite and helpful.  they are here a lot.

               
              Click to expand...


              Oh my goodness. I think you overestimate what moderators are doing. We delete the posts all in Kanji and other spammers, we delete Craigy's profanity, and we pass out a warning every few months.

              And it's not like making somebody a moderator is an irreversible decision. It's a switch that is flipped. There's not enough volunteers to be able to pick and choose. If someone is "overmoderating" I'll hear about it quickly. Typically we moderators lean the other way a little too much judging by the recent polls.

              By the way, this discussion led to a new moderator- Doc Spouse. So that's good.

              And yes, I am stretched thin. And yes, I'm hiring. But no, I can't hire somebody to run this forum. I know to some of you this forum is the most important part of the empire, but in reality it is a very small piece of it. For example, I think there are 3000 members here and perhaps only 50 really active people and another 1000 semi-active. Yes, there are plenty of lurkers too, but by comparison, a typical blog post gets read by 15,000, a podcast is listened to by 10,000, the email list is 14,000, there are 5500 following me on Twitter etc.

              I think the forum is great. I think it builds community. I think it gives people a place to ask and discuss complicated questions and maybe even decreases the amount of email I get. I enjoy being on here. It's certainly an easier place to interact with each other than in the blog comments section. But if it required any significant amount of work to be put into it regularly by my staff, it would be gone. It probably took a year of ads just to pay for its development and its contribution to revenue probably places it just ahead of the Scholarship. I'll bet Johanna makes more money off this forum than I do judging by how many of you have hired her in the last couple of years after reading her posts.

              And I don't think defending my own decisions that are attacked is being "thin-skinned." Being thin-skinned is just deleting the account of the poster who attacked the decision. I would call what I'm doing "being engaged."
              Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

              Comment


              • #82













                So 5 warnings and one is out?
                Click to expand…


                Yes, see Forum Policies and FAQs #6 under What are the forum policies?
                Click to expand…


                You guys make it sound so strict. Bear in mind that in two years nobody has yet even gotten the level 2 warning-i.e. the one week ban, much less been completely banned. (Except obvious spamming.)
                Click to expand…


                I wasn’t making it “sound” any way, just directing her to the policies you wrote. This was after @Vagabond made a comment about them. Apparently, he thinks he’s had 2 warnings. Maybe level 2 is kind of a red badge of courage?
                Click to expand...


                At least I have something to shoot for.  8O

                Comment


                • #83




                  And I don’t think defending my own decisions that are attacked is being “thin-skinned.” Being thin-skinned is just deleting the account of the poster who attacked the decision. I would call what I’m doing “being engaged.”
                  Click to expand...


                  Regardless, that is how it often comes across.  It may not even be intentional, but it's the tone of your posts.

                  You can defend without being defensive.  Good example, like Kamban said "Maybe a better option would be to state that you feel that the ads are appropriate at both sites and leave it at that."

                  You should definitely stay engaged.  I think most people like hearing from the WCI himself, I know I do.

                  Comment


                  • #84



                    By the way, this discussion led to a new moderator- Doc Spouse. So that’s good.

                     
                    Click to expand...


                    Mwahaha, the power! THE POWER!

                    Seriously speaking, this is one of the more civil forums I've found.  I'm sure that's due to many of the posters being professionally mature (read, older), but that's also partly due to the self-policing that goes on here.

                    Edit: Of course I post the rest of the message in the wrong thread.  Why wouldn't I? :P
                    I should have been a pair of ragged claws. Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.

                    Comment


                    • #85
















                      So 5 warnings and one is out?
                      Click to expand…


                      Yes, see Forum Policies and FAQs #6 under What are the forum policies?
                      Click to expand…


                      You guys make it sound so strict. Bear in mind that in two years nobody has yet even gotten the level 2 warning-i.e. the one week ban, much less been completely banned. (Except obvious spamming.)
                      Click to expand…


                      I wasn’t making it “sound” any way, just directing her to the policies you wrote. This was after @Vagabond made a comment about them. Apparently, he thinks he’s had 2 warnings. Maybe level 2 is kind of a red badge of courage?
                      Click to expand…


                      At least I have something to shoot for.  ????
                      Click to expand...


                      Just updated my signature with my level 1 badge of courage.   :lol:

                      Comment


                      • #86






                        By the way, this discussion led to a new moderator- Doc Spouse. So that’s good.

                         
                        Click to expand…


                        Mwahaha, the power! THE POWER!

                        Seriously speaking, this is one of the more civil forums I’ve found.  I’m sure that’s due to many of the posters being professionally mature (read, older), but that’s also partly due to the self-policing that goes on here.

                        Getting back on topic – I actually made a decent income from Herbalife back in my military days.  Used to post those little tear-off flyers in the gyms at all the camps.  Marines on deployment don’t do much aside from drink and work out; so the market was there.  I stopped mainly because the Internet explosion took all the fun out of it, and I noticed the only real way to get to the “successful” levels was to concentrate on signing up rather than selling product.  /shrug, got residual checks for a few years after stopping.  It was an interesting experience, but I still wouldn’t recommend it to anyone.
                        Click to expand...


                        Crap, someone else I need to suck up to.

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          WCI, do you have a sense of how many lurkers there are on the forum, i.e. daily unique forum visitors? Just curious. I guess it must be less than the number of twitter followers based on your post.

                          I think you could promote the forum more than you do on the main site. I didn’t see it for a long time. Maybe have a couple of the most active or most recent topics show up on the main page to let people know it exists and is reasonably active.

                          Comment


                          • #88




                            WCI, do you have a sense of how many lurkers there are on the forum, i.e. daily unique forum visitors? Just curious. I guess it must be less than the number of twitter followers based on your post.

                            I think you could promote the forum more than you do on the main site. I didn’t see it for a long time. Maybe have a couple of the most active or most recent topics show up on the main page to let people know it exists and is reasonably active.
                            Click to expand...


                            Yes. Not only do I have a sense about pageviews, I have exact numbers. Yesterday the forum had 12,367 pageviews. About 2500 of those were on the thread announcing PIMD and the one about MLM which were the most popular threads yesterday. But how many of those were made by lurkers and how many by members I can't tell. Nor can I tell the difference between a member who isn't signed in and a lurker.

                            Yes, I do need to promote the forum (and the Facebook page and Twitter and the book and the newsletter and the Financial Bootcamp and the conference and the course and the WCI network partners and my speaking gigs and my freelance writing and the podcast and the Youtube channel) more. But sometimes I just feel like creating content or arguing with Craigy about car loans on the forum or going mountain biking instead.

                            I recently had somebody ask why the Podcast didn't get top billing on the website main menu like the forum does. It was a good question. The forum does. It's the third link- right after Start Here and the Blog. That's pretty darn prominent. Forum posts are highlighted in every monthly newsletter.
                            Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                            Comment


                            • #89




                               

                              But seriously, is anyone else feeling overwhelmed by the sheer volume of physician-oriented non-clinical content?
                              Click to expand...


                              Between this, podcasts, and facebook groups....I think I need to cut back

                              Comment


                              • #90







                                 

                                But seriously, is anyone else feeling overwhelmed by the sheer volume of physician-oriented non-clinical content?
                                Click to expand…


                                Between this, podcasts, and facebook groups….I think I need to cut back
                                Click to expand...


                                my wife thinks i've gone nuts with all the attention to money and retirement funds.  she thinks i'm needlessly anxious.

                                 

                                Comment

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