First real job questions

[slippingsloth]

Hi everyone,

I am a graduating fellow this year(June 30) and have a question regarding career path and am just trying to get a sense of what others have to say.

My wife and I have been doing long distance for a couple years(due to training). Her job is rather geographically restricted, essentially its limited to major west coast cities(seattle, LA and SF Bay area). These are the only real job opportunities she has and (she's already working and has her family in one of them). She would like to continue working and her salary is ~100k in her field currently. Potential salary in my field is reasonably 3-4x that pending academics/location/practice.  Due to the competitive nature of those local markets, despite several interviews I have had difficulty finding a reasonable job in those areas with regards to taking me/pay/benefits/and not eat your young mentality. I have a job offer in hand for somewhat less than optimal but decent job/salary for my field in academics which is not in those areas which would leave us long distance.

Options:

Stay long distance in the academic place for a couple years, earn some money complete boards/certifications etc... reassess in 1-2years

Continue looking for jobs in the more competitive markets while working where I am...  Are there significant consequences to one's career if you leave after first job after 6 or 12 months? Just not sure how this looks as I have always been the get it done, yes sir type and seems a little *** to do this. Also although I havent read the full contract yet I assume its for 1 year.

Convince the wife to quit and move to where she might be less happy and away from her family.  Not thrilled with this one but my salary would be more than enough to support us both and is 3x her salary.

 

I am sure there are other important things but essentials are we are 33/32 with no debt/no kids.

 

Advice from the docs who didn't land their dream jobs up front is sought

 

 

[shantster]

slippingsloth wrote:

Options:

Stay long distance in the academic place for a couple years, earn some money complete boards/certifications etc… reassess in 1-2years

Continue looking for jobs in the more competitive markets while working where I am…  Are there significant consequences to one’s career if you leave after first job after 6 or 12 months? Just not sure how this looks as I have always been the get it done, yes sir type and seems a little *** to do this. Also although I havent read the full contract yet I assume its for 1 year.

Convince the wife to quit and move to where she might be less happy and away from her family.  Not thrilled with this one but my salary would be more than enough to support us both and is 3x her salary.

Click to expand...

I feel like this is something that needs to be a discussion between you and your wife. Early in residency my significant other took a job in a different city 7 hours away. It was (and still is) the best decision for both our careers for him to take this job and for me to not try to transfer residency positions. Before he fully accepted the position, we already had decided that the long-distance would continue only through training (fellowship included) and whose career would take priority when I finished. For us, the firm end point of the long distance relationship is our biggest priority and having the decision about who will have the bigger say in job/location prevents resentment on one (or both) individuals. YMMV.

[RJ]

Can you tell us your speciality?

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

You've done a couple years long distance already. That's a long time to live apart from your wife.

If I were in your shoes, my focus would be on getting the best job I could find in the city where she lives. Her family is there and she's got a good job that she doesn't want to leave. If starting a family of your own is in your future (at 32 / 33 it might soon be a priority), being close to her family is going to be that much more important.

It's not all about money, but I can understand your frustration in taking a big pay cut to do the same job in a desirable city. If you take the big city job, you'll be on the wrong end of the geographic arbitrage that exists in medicine. On the other hand, based on what you've said, moving to where she is will make your wife happier, which means you'll be happier, and you'll finally be together.

Happy wife = Happy Life.

[Docbeans]

Agree with the above posters. My husband and I did long-distance for 3 yrs and it was 3 yrs too long! Of course, it was vital for our careers- he got a job with great freedom to grow and enhance his skills and I was able to do the fellowship I had matched into. I could not envision continuing that beyond training. In fact, I may not ever have applied for fellowship if I had not already been given the position before we knew DH was leaving.

That said, every couple is different and needs to make their own decision about this. The good thing is you have already been long distance for a significant time. That is enough time for you (and your wife) to figure out if you want to do it any longer.

Also, if you do take up a job elsewhere (not where DW is), plan on being there at least 1-2 yrs. You are right in your assumption that it wont look too good on your resume if you are at your first job for 6mo. More importantly, you almost always need references and letters from your previous job to apply for the next one- and the practice/hospital wont be too happy to find out you are leaving within a few months to a yr. Most new hires are supported on a salary that turns out to be more than what they bring in- at least for the first few months or so... they wont like this quick turnover.

Thinking aloud... how about locums for a while... it will give you some flexibility and time to sort things out. It will let you be away from your wife (and give you an idea how both of you take it) and between jobs, you can be together

[VagabondMD]

PhysicianOnFIRE wrote:

You’ve done a couple years long distance already. That’s a long time to live apart from your wife.

Click to expand...

I agree with PoF. If you are planning to have kids, being around family, assuming that they can be helpful, is priceless. Additionally, having her continue her career, even though it pays less than yours, is excellent for income diversification. If your medical career flames out (unlikely, but with accident, illness, or bad luck, who knows?), her income becomes essential. My wife milked her career along when the kids were young, doing contract work but eventually taking a real job when the kids were in school. For the first time this year since I was a resident, her income will be higher than mine (woo-hoo!).

It is a painful irony that the highest paying medical jobs tend to be in the locations with the lowest cost-of-living, and vice versa.

[Zaphod]

Seems lots of people have done it, and I know a couple myself, but it is much harder on your relationship and after a couple years you basically have to learn to be a couple again. I would try to avoid that at all costs. Maybe look into cities near these areas, there are lots of places (idk your specialty) outside these cities that are not as competitive.

[Raster]

Does your wife understand that her $100k/year job may cost your family $200k/year? Between your possibly dramatically reduced income, significant costs associated with having both spouses working, CA income taxes, and reduced flexibility to walk away from a bad deal if you are tied to a location by your spouse, she should consider carefully if her job is worth paying $Xx,xxx/month for the privilege of working. I know a number of specialties where it is indeed a 5 digit number when you are talking about SF or LA, and the first number isn't a one. Depending on the locations you are comparing, when you combine the reduced income and inflated COL, your time to financial independence can be decades longer.

If it is a family thing - get a good miles credit card and fly them out a few times per year.

Don't forget that her income will be taxed at your marginal rate which could be over 50% in California.

[Hatton]

What does your wife do?  What limits her to 3 of the highest colas in the country and the worst prospects for your career?

[RJ]

Well, he is either too busy being a fellow or didn't like the advice.

[slippingsloth]

Am busy but was waiting for a few replies too. She works in maritime petroleum services. Think coastal oil refining. Some parts of Texas she can work in but she said she'd rather die than work there so I took that off the list.
She works in LA. I said Seattle but really the area up there where she could work is Bellingham. Other options are south bay los Angeles and the Martinez Vallejo Richmond corridor in east bay area of San Francisco.

If I had found any reasonable job where she lived this wouldn't be an issue but I interviewed at 2. First the salary difference was more than 50% lower than the below the academics salary I have in hand. The other didn't offer the position. That was very low too but at least the partnership tract was reasonable.


Thankfully I am not in peds. I am a radiologist so its not 5 digits but it's not what it was before I started training either

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

RJ wrote:

Well, he is either too busy being a fellow or didn’t like the advice.

Click to expand...

Well, he is in residency and doing his best to maintain a long-distance relationship. Both require a lot of time and sacrifice.

Also, how quickly can you realistically expect to hear back from someone with the moniker "slipping sloth"



-PoF

[Noah]

You could also keep looking for new job opportunities. I'm most familiar with the Bay Area market. In the Peninsula (Palo Alto, San Jose etc) and San Francisco you can earn a very good living but most of the physician groups make you "pay your dues" for several years of comparatively low wages and worse hours. The end salary can be competitive and quite comfortably but it's a tough sell to consider 3-5 years of being low on the totem pole again.

I have found that there are a number of other great opportunities that are within an hour of SF though. If your wife would potentially be working in Richmond you could look into Fairfield which is a 30 minute drive to the east and for my specialty had a salary about 30% higher to start than in the immediate Bay Area. Other cities into California's central valley such as Fresno tend to pay very well and wouldn't be very far away from the East Bay if you were considering shift work and doing 1 week on, 1 off etc.

[RJ]

Raster wrote:

Does your wife understand that her $100k/year job may cost your family $200k/year? Between your possibly dramatically reduced income, significant costs associated with having both spouses working, CA income taxes, and reduced flexibility to walk away from a bad deal if you are tied to a location by your spouse, she should consider carefully if her job is worth paying $Xx,xxx/month for the privilege of working. I know a number of specialties where it is indeed a 5 digit number when you are talking about SF or LA, and the first number isn’t a one. Depending on the locations you are comparing, when you combine the reduced income and inflated COL, your time to financial independence can be decades longer.

If it is a family thing – get a good miles credit card and fly them out a few times per year.

Don’t forget that her income will be taxed at your marginal rate which could be over 50% in California.

Click to expand...

I am going to play devil's advocate here. Both my wife and I are physicians and are from CA. We have done our "training dance" around the country for over 10 years and lived on the east coast and other places. Could not WAIT to get back home. It has been a few years now and we are both established in LA. Couldn't be happier. Yes, I know we could go to rural Montana and make a killing, but you know what life's too short. I wake up every day with a smile on my face knowing I am where I want to be. I say keep looking for opportunities. Also, how about Teleradiology??? I friend of mine is doing it and is very happy. Grated I am not in radiology and don't know the details of this set up. OP, if you want general info about LA area, etc., feel free to shoot me a PM.

[Hatton]

I am flabbergasted that radiology jobs are hard to find.  Your wife may want to work because she loves her career and her self esteem and identity is tied to it.  I think medical jobs and incomes really go through cycles.  Has your wife ever visited Texas?  I have never lived there but my brother does and he loves it.