W2 attending and work hour protections

[Steve]

I have weekend call once a month, and do 12 days in a row every time I work a weekend. So does everyone in my group. There is no magic in medicine. We make a lot of money because we work a lot of hours and see a lot of patients. It is ok to work less, but you have to expect to make less in return. If you want to negotiate a lighter schedule, you have to sell it to the group or hospital in a way that also makes sense for them. Use your annual salary to figure out what a day’s pay is worth, and then use that to negotiate less work at a reasonably lower pay.

[PhysicianOnFIRE]

No restrictions that I'm aware of unless you have them negotiated into your contract. I'm working 10 days straight starting Monday. I believe I worked 19 straight in my first "permanent" job once.

[beagler]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Lithium wrote:

I’m starting the first of 19 in a row today.  My record is 35.  Fortunately I have a lot of short days, and I just had 16 off.  But by this weekend I’ll be ready for my next vacation.

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I did that as a med student/resident. Actually, not as a resident due to rules. I think one of the rules in place was that I had to have a day off every week, but I can’t remember exactly. I decided I didn’t want to live my life that way. I’d quit the job if there was an expectation to regularly work more than 5-7 in a row. But that doesn’t mean every doc feels the same way I do about it.

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"The light that burns twice as bright burns half as long, and you have burned so very very brightly, Roy. Look at you. You're the prodigal son"

[Lithium]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Lithium wrote:

I’m starting the first of 19 in a row today.  My record is 35.  Fortunately I have a lot of short days, and I just had 16 off.  But by this weekend I’ll be ready for my next vacation.

Click to expand…

I did that as a med student/resident. Actually, not as a resident due to rules. I think one of the rules in place was that I had to have a day off every week, but I can’t remember exactly. I decided I didn’t want to live my life that way. I’d quit the job if there was an expectation to regularly work more than 5-7 in a row. But that doesn’t mean every doc feels the same way I do about it.

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When I started this job it was permitted to not see your patients one day a week.  I should have known that that wouldn't last.  Would I still have taken the job if I'd known those days off would go away?  Probably.  I hate the fact that on almost every weekend I'm either working or out of town.  But it's very difficult to imagine adjusting a typical physician's schedule that doesn't allow 12+ weeks of travel a year.  It would be great if I could get weekends off and still have large blocks of free time where I don't have to go to work, but most employers will never accommodate that.

I did some crazy stuff in residency.  Once I had ten days off over the holidays and spent pretty much the whole time driving back and forth between two hospitals, making 10-15k.  Plenty of epic shifts followed by 2-6 hour drives to clinic at the home base.  I wasn't the most compliant with duty hours.  I guess it's no wonder I feel burned out.

[Raddoc123]

Zaphod wrote:

Raddoc123 wrote:

jacoavlu wrote:

I am an employee, and also an owner, of my own practice (with partners)

Are you being treated different than other employees? Is your current schedule a change vs the past in your group?

I would say that everything is negotiable. You could ask for things to change, ideally with an alternative proposal that works for the group.

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No straight w2 employee of health system, not owner.  I can’t negotiate because everyone has the same schedule.

I am getting sick and tired of working too many days in a row.  Workload going up and salary staying flat.  Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, seeing my savings grow, and feel like I am dragging and being abused by my underpaying employer in a popular area.

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I dont think everyone having the same schedule has much to do with your negotiation position. How easily you’re replaced and how much they feel like retaining you do. If you’re in a popular area, these may not be favorable.

There is zero incentive with working more?

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Almost zero.  As workload goes up, salary stays flat because the employer is reluctant to increase.  You work hard to keep the job and not fall behind the curve.  It’s probably because I am in a popular area.  Recently workload has gone up to unsafe levels in my opinion, especially on weekends.   After many years, I’ve finally started to look around.   It in my area, and in today’s environment I always fear it could be worse.

[Zaphod]

Raddoc123 wrote:

jacoavlu wrote:

I am an employee, and also an owner, of my own practice (with partners)

Are you being treated different than other employees? Is your current schedule a change vs the past in your group?

I would say that everything is negotiable. You could ask for things to change, ideally with an alternative proposal that works for the group.

Click to expand…

No straight w2 employee of health system, not owner.  I can’t negotiate because everyone has the same schedule.

I am getting sick and tired of working too many days in a row.  Workload going up and salary staying flat.  Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, seeing my savings grow, and feel like I am dragging and being abused by my underpaying employer in a popular area.

Click to expand...

I dont think everyone having the same schedule has much to do with your negotiation position. How easily you're replaced and how much they feel like retaining you do. If you're in a popular area, these may not be favorable.

There is zero incentive with working more?

[Raddoc123]

jacoavlu wrote:

I am an employee, and also an owner, of my own practice (with partners)

Are you being treated different than other employees? Is your current schedule a change vs the past in your group?

I would say that everything is negotiable. You could ask for things to change, ideally with an alternative proposal that works for the group.

Click to expand...

No straight w2 employee of health system, not owner.  I can’t negotiate because everyone has the same schedule.

I am getting sick and tired of working too many days in a row.  Workload going up and salary staying flat.  Maybe it’s because I’m getting older, seeing my savings grow, and feel like I am dragging and being abused by my underpaying employer in a popular area.

[wideopenspaces]

I currently never work more than two 5-6 hour days in a row. Starting in July I'll go to 4 days in a row and I was thinking that sounded rough. I've gotten a little soft ;-) But more than 5 is a deal breaker. I don't know how people handle it.

[The White Coat Investor]

Lithium wrote:

I’m starting the first of 19 in a row today.  My record is 35.  Fortunately I have a lot of short days, and I just had 16 off.  But by this weekend I’ll be ready for my next vacation.

Click to expand...

I did that as a med student/resident. Actually, not as a resident due to rules. I think one of the rules in place was that I had to have a day off every week, but I can't remember exactly. I decided I didn't want to live my life that way. I'd quit the job if there was an expectation to regularly work more than 5-7 in a row. But that doesn't mean every doc feels the same way I do about it.

[Lithium]

I'm starting the first of 19 in a row today.  My record is 35.  Fortunately I have a lot of short days, and I just had 16 off.  But by this weekend I'll be ready for my next vacation.

[Side Hustle Scrubs]

Unfortunately, a lot of the rules about overtime pay do not apply to highly compensated employees or owners of a group.

I get salty if I work more than 4 days in a row. I’d have to change jobs if I was working 12 straight on a regular basis.

[The White Coat Investor]

Raddoc123 wrote:

Are there any laws regarding w2 salaried employees or MDs and how many days they can work consecutively without a day off?  When I do my call weekends, it is not infrequent for me to work 10 days straight and at times 13 days without a day off.  As I get older, this is becoming almost intolerable. Thanks.

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I have employees. I am incentivized to get them to work as much as possible to maximize my profit. But it's up to them whether they want to do that. They can always negotiate something different or go to another job.

If what you're doing isn't tolerable, change it. The better your negotiating position (financial resources, willingness to move or change jobs etc) the more likely you are to win the negotiation.

[jacoavlu]

I am an employee, and also an owner, of my own practice (with partners)

Are you being treated different than other employees? Is your current schedule a change vs the past in your group?

I would say that everything is negotiable. You could ask for things to change, ideally with an alternative proposal that works for the group.

[MPMD]

can't imagine there are unless you in some sort of protected class?

if nothing else this would complicate the lives of people who WANT to work nonstop.

[Raddoc123]

Are you an employee?  I don’t think it’s reasonable to make an employee work 2 weeks straight.