What is the typical or market compensation for a physician administrator?

[FIREshrink]

leaning against taking a system position whch would mean travel, stress, and the end of my four day work plus minimally more pay. keeping open the possibility of a local multi hospital position which would be negotiable and I think i could stick to 4 or 4.5 days per week. believe i would have a strong negotiating position, enjoy the challenge for a couple years, bring valuable perspective and skills to the position, and after that have a written agreement to drop to three days per week. a little higher pay of maybe ten percent but that’s not why I would do it.

[q-school]

adventure wrote:

FIREshrink wrote:

If there were an opportunity to take a 0.5 or greater FTE role at a system level (say as a system VP of something) in a multi-state health care system with 10 hospitals, what would a physician expect or need to make?

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Depends what you negotiate, but I’d expect better in a 10 hospital system. Remember, at that level your job is business. If you can help the business, you usually are well compensated (or at least have room to negotiate).

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the way hospitals decide physician fte always make me laugh.  i take your post to mean that you will be making decisions on behalf of 10 hospitals.  how is this a 0.5 fte position?  you are going to keep 100% of your outpatient and find locums for 50% of your inpatient.  i would run run run.

i haven't found there is much room to negotiate as these positions (in my experience) are typically tiered.  more power to you, but the amount of money would have to be significantly higher.  also, as you are financially independent, i am more worried about your work/life balance than your income.

jmo ymmv

 

[adventure]

FIREshrink wrote:

If there were an opportunity to take a 0.5 or greater FTE role at a system level (say as a system VP of something) in a multi-state health care system with 10 hospitals, what would a physician expect or need to make?

Click to expand...

Depends what you negotiate, but I'd expect better in a 10 hospital system. Remember, at that level your job is business. If you can help the business, you usually are well compensated (or at least have room to negotiate).

[GXA]

I have several years experience as a CMO.  In our system they earn 300k-400k plus benefits for individual hospital CMOs.  The work never ends and at the end of the day it is easily a lower hourly wage then I earn in the Emergency Department.  Having achieved FI a few years ago, I opted to step down and work 8-10 shifts a month rather than 20+ days a month in the office with several evening meeting a month.

[Lithium]

Matas wrote:

Here, many if not most are merely sycophantic toadies to senior administration, and viewed as pariahs by the rank and file medical staff. So whatever it is, it’s a high price for one’s dignity.

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This is my very cynical view.  Much like the NFL owners like to have Roger Goodell as a punching bag for their labor problems, administrators like to deploy fellow physicians to smile at us, let us vent, facilitate open dialogue, and say they advocate for us, but how much do they really change on our behalf?  Precious little.

[Matas]

Here, many if not most are merely sycophantic toadies to senior administration, and viewed as pariahs by the rank and file medical staff. So whatever it is, it's a high price for one's dignity.

[q-school]

we have six tiers of administrative work for physicians.  the max tier is $250/hr.  however, there is a cap on income.

generally the hours spent are far in excess of the cap.  if you are on RVU formula, it is double damage.

it's only when you get to one level below c-level that the money becomes interesting for specialists.

on the way there, for just about any non primary care outpatient physician, it is a money loser.  in our system anyways.

 

the nature of the administrative jobs varies enormously.  we have had many physicians 'fired' from administrative jobs due to some combination of peter principle and failure to perform and differences of opinion.  very few have been successful at returning to fulltime practice.  that may reflect changing of professional goals or burnout or better opportunities perceived elsewhere once someone has had an administrative position.

[Complete_newbie]

Got it. Agreed. Not so attractive

[Lithium]

Complete_newbie wrote:

0.5 FTE is 260k?? That’s really good, better than specialist (if extrapolate to 1 FTE) …what am I missing ??

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The 260k is for a full time position, 0.5 FTE of it is administrative, 0.5 FTE is clinical.  Not that great.

[AR]

Vagabond MD wrote:

SValleyMD wrote:

I can understand.

If financially secure than its incredibly easy work. Very few other mds to compete with. Just attend meetings and pipe up now and then with a comment. Nothing gets done anyway so you’re not expected to actually do anything.. plus it’s not like you’re graded on hitting numbers or anything.. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one getting “fired”.

Obviously generalizing here but if u can mentally survive the mind numbing meetings than I can’t see how it would create any stress. Perhaps you do something worthwhile with it too.

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I think that you underestimate the challenges and responsibilities of some of these admin or executive positions, and, yes, docs do get fired from these positions, too, far more frequently than they do from clinical positions, in my experience.

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The jobs are highly variable.  Some are definitely like what you describe.  Others are more like what SValley describes.

[FIREshrink]

It’s a different kind of stress. Definitely tasked with doing much with few resources and then having to find more resources all the time.

There’s a possibility coming up. I don’t want the job (I’m FIREshrink, remember), but realistically I am the person they want. I have no idea how the comp would work. It’d probably be something like 0.5 FTE for 1 year. Unless we hire a locums to take my inpatient work, there’s no way I could drop down that much. No one can take my outpatients for 1 year so I’d continue to see them.

[VagabondMD]

SValleyMD wrote:

I can understand.

If financially secure than its incredibly easy work. Very few other mds to compete with. Just attend meetings and pipe up now and then with a comment. Nothing gets done anyway so you’re not expected to actually do anything.. plus it’s not like you’re graded on hitting numbers or anything.. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one getting “fired”.

Obviously generalizing here but if u can mentally survive the mind numbing meetings than I can’t see how it would create any stress. Perhaps you do something worthwhile with it too.

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I think that you underestimate the challenges and responsibilities of some of these admin or executive positions, and, yes, docs do get fired from these positions, too, far more frequently than they do from clinical positions, in my experience.

[Complete_newbie]

0.5 FTE is 260k?? That's really good, better than specialist (if extrapolate to 1 FTE) ...what am I missing ??

[SValleyMD]

I can understand.

If financially secure than its incredibly easy work. Very few other mds to compete with. Just attend meetings and pipe up now and then with a comment. Nothing gets done anyway so you're not expected to actually do anything.. plus it's not like you're graded on hitting numbers or anything.. I don't think I've ever heard of one getting "fired".

Obviously generalizing here but if u can mentally survive the mind numbing meetings than I can't see how it would create any stress. Perhaps you do something worthwhile with it too.

[VagabondMD]

FIREshrink wrote:

I still can’t see a physician becoming a full time administrator for a pay cut. Why do docs do it?

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Maybe they are financially secure, want to stay in healthcare, and are tired of the clinical grind. I have considered in the past and would again, for the right opportunity.