What is the typical or market compensation for a physician administrator?

[FIREshrink]

Please describe the compensation and the role, as well as the size and scale of the organization, for any data/examples you can provide.

Example: full time or half time community hospital CMO.

Example: part time hospital service line leader.

Example: System-wide medical group medical director.

I am a 0.15 FTE medical director and paid $125 per hour for that work - that is the standard rate for all part time admin work. For my specialty it’s a bit of a pay cut but not huge. For other specialties it’s quite a bit less than they’d make doing clinical work. However, that rate seems like it would be too low to entice any physicians into full time administrative work.

If there were an opportunity to take a 0.5 or greater FTE role at a system level (say as a system VP of something) in a multi-state health care system with 10 hospitals, what would a physician expect or need to make? Are benefits the same as physician benefits or are they better? Or worse?

[Lithium]

I work in the same specialty, and my large organization is recruiting a 0.5 FTE director.  Salary is $260k, which is less than I make.  Hourly admin rate is about the same as yours.

I think they're going to have a difficult time filling that position because the clinical half isn't very appealing.  But feel free to PM me if you want more info.

[childay]

Same specialty, but am paid a flat stipend for medical directorship, which was negotiated initially.

My spouse (a higher paid specialist) is paid $150 per hour for an ICU directorship.

No clue about CMO etc.

PM as needed

[SValleyMD]

We (specialist) get $175/hour. Primary care gets the same. None of the specialists have stuck with it (myself included) whereas the primary care guys fight over jobs. This does create a pcp like mafia running the physician side.

Inititally I felt like i couldn't walk away from going to a 7am meeting because I felt it would be like paying 175 bucks just to have a 5 min breakfast with the kids

I quickly realized at the end of the month those dollars were not noticeable and the early, late and lunch meetings were no way worth it- esp since I hate RN administrator led meetings

[FIREshrink]

The pcp vs specialist admin pay issue comes up here but it’s been this way for a long time so I guess we all accept it. We are fortunate to have lots of specialists engaged.

I still can’t see a physician becoming a full time administrator for a pay cut. Why do docs do it?

[VagabondMD]

FIREshrink wrote:

I still can’t see a physician becoming a full time administrator for a pay cut. Why do docs do it?

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Maybe they are financially secure, want to stay in healthcare, and are tired of the clinical grind. I have considered in the past and would again, for the right opportunity.

[SValleyMD]

I can understand.

If financially secure than its incredibly easy work. Very few other mds to compete with. Just attend meetings and pipe up now and then with a comment. Nothing gets done anyway so you're not expected to actually do anything.. plus it's not like you're graded on hitting numbers or anything.. I don't think I've ever heard of one getting "fired".

Obviously generalizing here but if u can mentally survive the mind numbing meetings than I can't see how it would create any stress. Perhaps you do something worthwhile with it too.

[Complete_newbie]

0.5 FTE is 260k?? That's really good, better than specialist (if extrapolate to 1 FTE) ...what am I missing ??

[VagabondMD]

SValleyMD wrote:

I can understand.

If financially secure than its incredibly easy work. Very few other mds to compete with. Just attend meetings and pipe up now and then with a comment. Nothing gets done anyway so you’re not expected to actually do anything.. plus it’s not like you’re graded on hitting numbers or anything.. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one getting “fired”.

Obviously generalizing here but if u can mentally survive the mind numbing meetings than I can’t see how it would create any stress. Perhaps you do something worthwhile with it too.

Click to expand...

I think that you underestimate the challenges and responsibilities of some of these admin or executive positions, and, yes, docs do get fired from these positions, too, far more frequently than they do from clinical positions, in my experience.

[FIREshrink]

It’s a different kind of stress. Definitely tasked with doing much with few resources and then having to find more resources all the time.

There’s a possibility coming up. I don’t want the job (I’m FIREshrink, remember), but realistically I am the person they want. I have no idea how the comp would work. It’d probably be something like 0.5 FTE for 1 year. Unless we hire a locums to take my inpatient work, there’s no way I could drop down that much. No one can take my outpatients for 1 year so I’d continue to see them.

[AR]

Vagabond MD wrote:

SValleyMD wrote:

I can understand.

If financially secure than its incredibly easy work. Very few other mds to compete with. Just attend meetings and pipe up now and then with a comment. Nothing gets done anyway so you’re not expected to actually do anything.. plus it’s not like you’re graded on hitting numbers or anything.. I don’t think I’ve ever heard of one getting “fired”.

Obviously generalizing here but if u can mentally survive the mind numbing meetings than I can’t see how it would create any stress. Perhaps you do something worthwhile with it too.

Click to expand…

I think that you underestimate the challenges and responsibilities of some of these admin or executive positions, and, yes, docs do get fired from these positions, too, far more frequently than they do from clinical positions, in my experience.

Click to expand...

The jobs are highly variable.  Some are definitely like what you describe.  Others are more like what SValley describes.

[Lithium]

Complete_newbie wrote:

0.5 FTE is 260k?? That’s really good, better than specialist (if extrapolate to 1 FTE) …what am I missing ??

Click to expand...

The 260k is for a full time position, 0.5 FTE of it is administrative, 0.5 FTE is clinical.  Not that great.

[Complete_newbie]

Got it. Agreed. Not so attractive

[q-school]

we have six tiers of administrative work for physicians.  the max tier is $250/hr.  however, there is a cap on income.

generally the hours spent are far in excess of the cap.  if you are on RVU formula, it is double damage.

it's only when you get to one level below c-level that the money becomes interesting for specialists.

on the way there, for just about any non primary care outpatient physician, it is a money loser.  in our system anyways.

 

the nature of the administrative jobs varies enormously.  we have had many physicians 'fired' from administrative jobs due to some combination of peter principle and failure to perform and differences of opinion.  very few have been successful at returning to fulltime practice.  that may reflect changing of professional goals or burnout or better opportunities perceived elsewhere once someone has had an administrative position.

[Matas]

Here, many if not most are merely sycophantic toadies to senior administration, and viewed as pariahs by the rank and file medical staff. So whatever it is, it's a high price for one's dignity.