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Discuss Latest POF Blog Post: An Epic Fail at Early Retirement

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  • #31
    Originally posted by dayman View Post

    Agree that part time work makes more sense in many of these situations. Much easier to unwind that a few years later if your situation changes. (For a physician at least - the guy in the story seemed to find a new job just fine)

    But talking about $30K/year spending is a straw man. I have never heard of a physician attempting this. "Lean" early retirement for a physician is more like PoF, who I think had a couple million and a paid off house when he quit? That's a different life than the guy in the story.
    totally fair point

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    • #32
      Originally posted by dayman View Post
      I have never heard of a physician attempting this. "Lean" early retirement for a physician is more like PoF, who I think had a couple million and a paid off house when he quit? That's a different life than the guy in the story.
      This.

      Any physician could probably reach FIRE with a portfolio of $2.5-3 million in about 15 years. My question is always - are they really just going to quit? (I could ask this about me, I'll be in that boat in my early 40s). Most people who can do that move on to other activities which usually involve some sort of earnings. So... why wait until you can "retire"... isn't it better to design a life you don't need to retire from?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by familydocPA View Post

        This.

        Any physician could probably reach FIRE with a portfolio of $2.5-3 million in about 15 years. My question is always - are they really just going to quit? (I could ask this about me, I'll be in that boat in my early 40s). Most people who can do that move on to other activities which usually involve some sort of earnings. So... why wait until you can "retire"... isn't it better to design a life you don't need to retire from?
        If you dislike medicine from the start, sure, you should design that life from the start. But it’s completely possible that you want to do whatever it is you are doing in medicine in your 30s/40s and then find it not as appealing in your 40s/50s. Having built up that 3 million or whatever allows you to make a decision to change or not. If you don’t want to change and want to increase your spending/have plans for what to do with 10 million+ in retirement, then great, keep on doing what you’re doing. If you aren’t interested in spending much more and realize that you might want to do something less lucrative then you have the option to switch. A LOT of young doctors assume they won’t want to switch and so increase their spending early on and do not have 3 million in their early 40s and don’t have any option but to keep doing exactly what they are doing. My advice is not to assume that your 45 year old self will want the life you designed for your 35 year old self, set yourself up to have options.

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        • #34
          I can easily understand rejecting a high consumption lifestyle.

          I do not get the fascination with idleness. I cannot imagine a fate worse than decades of doing nothing.
          What is terrible about earning a living? Health insurance?
          ​​​​​ Margin for error in financial planning?

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          • #35
            Originally posted by afan View Post
            I can easily understand rejecting a high consumption lifestyle.

            I do not get the fascination with idleness. I cannot imagine a fate worse than decades of doing nothing.
            What is terrible about earning a living? Health insurance?
            ​​​​​ Margin for error in financial planning?
            I don’t think any one here into RE, are doing it to stay idle
            like they always say, “you don’t retire from something, you retire to something “

            Personally, I can fill my non working days (4/7)with hobbies and physical activities with no problem. Sure can do more of them in retirement, just need to focus and stay healthy

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            • #36
              Originally posted by afan View Post
              I can easily understand rejecting a high consumption lifestyle.

              I do not get the fascination with idleness. I cannot imagine a fate worse than decades of doing nothing.
              What is terrible about earning a living? Health insurance?
              ​​​​​ Margin for error in financial planning?
              Some people cannot imagine a fate worse than continuing in their current career.

              FIRE does not imply idleness. It simply provides the option to do something else, usually something less painful and more interesting. Dr. Doom tried to be a writer. You're no doubt familiar with all of the FIRE bloggers, including PoF.

              When I quit over 20 years ago I studied accounting, finance, and equity valuation because those were my interests. Later, I worked as a healthcare equity analyst for a few years, earned the CFA designation, then earned an MBA, then ran a hobby RIA. Most of that will sound like work to those who haven't run a solo cardiology practice, but to me, it felt like indulging my hobby.

              When I "retire" the next time, at a standard retirement age, I plan to spend time retooling my math skills, and learning how to program. I suspect that will lead to something interesting, analogous to my study 20 years ago.

              I can imagine a fate worse than following the same career track for decades on end, but there are many interesting things to pursue, and I'm happier veering off the track.
              Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

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              • #37
                Found Livafi's blog post very interesting. Couple thoughts ran through my mind as I read:

                1. If he had worked longer instead of lean-FIRE (six figure spending allowance vs $30k) would his ex still be unhappy?
                2. Would he still be married to his ex if he was willing to go back to work as she wanted him too? She clearly wanted him to go back to work.
                3. While he does have a stash of assets let's be honest: taking a 5 year break with no earned income and having to spend the amount he accumulated dramatically affected his financial situation. A dollar earned and invested 5 years ago is worth a lot more than a dollar earned now.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by FIREshrink View Post

                  one point of clarification: it sounds like maybe HE had $950k in assets and HE had an income of $30k, whereas SHE had her own assets and income. I have never read him before, for those who have, is that correct?
                  I may sound old fashioned ( heck, I am) but I cannot imagine having separate assets in retirement and contributing to the expenses separately. It is one thing to have those early in marriage, especially a second one, but when you are going to be retired you should be able to pool it and take out the expense from that common income pool.

                  This is my contributing 30K and you will be putting in 30K sounds so alien to me. What happens when one has a major medical condition like he did or he has a stroke. Does she say, sorry I put in my part to the common pool for my health care and now you need to take out extra from your assets or seek Medicaid or start a gofundme campaign. Don't you want to be for each other till the end and make sacrifices together?

                  End of rant from the resident curmudgeon.
                  Last edited by Kamban; 02-05-2022, 06:19 PM.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Kamban View Post
                    This is my contributing 30K and you will be putting in 30K sounds so alien to me. What happens when one has a major medical condition like he did or he has a stroke. Does she say, sorry I put in my part to the common pool for my health care and now you need to take out extra from your assets or seek Medicaid or start a gofundme campaign.
                    Uhh yeah the way I read it that is pretty much how it went down.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Anne View Post

                      If you dislike medicine from the start, sure, you should design that life from the start. But it’s completely possible that you want to do whatever it is you are doing in medicine in your 30s/40s and then find it not as appealing in your 40s/50s. Having built up that 3 million or whatever allows you to make a decision to change or not. If you don’t want to change and want to increase your spending/have plans for what to do with 10 million+ in retirement, then great, keep on doing what you’re doing. If you aren’t interested in spending much more and realize that you might want to do something less lucrative then you have the option to switch. A LOT of young doctors assume they won’t want to switch and so increase their spending early on and do not have 3 million in their early 40s and don’t have any option but to keep doing exactly what they are doing. My advice is not to assume that your 45 year old self will want the life you designed for your 35 year old self, set yourself up to have options.
                      This should be the in keynote speech at WCICON.

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by dayman View Post

                        Agree that part time work makes more sense in many of these situations. Much easier to unwind that a few years later if your situation changes. (For a physician at least - the guy in the story seemed to find a new job just fine)

                        But talking about $30K/year spending is a straw man. I have never heard of a physician attempting this. "Lean" early retirement for a physician is more like PoF, who I think had a couple million and a paid off house when he quit? That's a different life than the guy in the story.
                        Multiply the number of houses and millions by 2, but yes, I agree.

                        Comment

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