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Discuss Latest POF Blog Post: FIRE Starter 004: Fast fatFI in Five Years???

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  • Discuss Latest POF Blog Post: FIRE Starter 004: Fast fatFI in Five Years???

    Businessman Jim Collins (not be confused with our friend Jim L. Collins) recommends setting what he calls big, hairy, audacious ... Read more

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  • #2
    As someone that's hit fatFIRE in 5 years, I can say it takes quite a few things falling into place to do so. High income, higher savings rate, and a lot of luck/dedication.

    Their definition of fatFIRE is interesting as their goal is $300k gross income from passive investments instead of net.

    Another thing that seems to be dragging them back is their $395k mortgage prior to starting their attending job and that's in a rural area. They say they live like a resident but that's not quite a resident house.

    Otherwise, real estate is definitely a way of meeting their goals. Accelerating wealth this quickly just requires leverage and luck one way or another. Real estate is a 'safe' way to leverage investments.

    Not foolproof and will require luck, but doable. Good luck to them!

    Comment


    • #3
      Presumably making $500k+ per year (and likely substantially more) as a rural interventional cardiologist, it seems feasible with a high savings rate.

      But I will say, I never quite understand the rationale of absolutely grinding for so many years (a good 20 years including education) just to be able to come to a complete stop.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
        As someone that's hit fatFIRE in 5 years, I can say it takes quite a few things falling into place to do so. High income, higher savings rate, and a lot of luck/dedication.

        Their definition of fatFIRE is interesting as their goal is $300k gross income from passive investments instead of net.

        Another thing that seems to be dragging them back is their $395k mortgage prior to starting their attending job and that's in a rural area. They say they live like a resident but that's not quite a resident house.

        Otherwise, real estate is definitely a way of meeting their goals. Accelerating wealth this quickly just requires leverage and luck one way or another. Real estate is a 'safe' way to leverage investments.

        Not foolproof and will require luck, but doable. Good luck to them!
        I had the same thoughts. Their equity plus mortgage equals a pretty nice for a rural/LCOL locale! And I wasn't quite sure what to think of the income goal as gross...I know exactly what that means if we are talking stocks and bonds and selling rare whiskey, I'm less sure what that means if it is RE.

        I also thought it was interesting when they mentioned counting the dollars not made while on vacation. At FI, I definitely still think of that! (Although to a much lower degree than 15 years ago.)

        How does the REPS thing work if you FIRE? Just curious.

        For the stock question, I would do a portion to the DAF; of the remainder, I would probably let it ride unless it got to be a large portion of the portfolio at which point I would cash out some of it. I mean, based upon some of the commentary here and elsewhere, their current holdings of crypto and Tesla will be worth around 100x more any day now.

        Not criticisms, just an illustration of how personal finance is personal. Good luck!

        Comment


        • #5
          I feel like I've read the same story now more than a handful of times -- Fresh Attending learns about FIRE then decides to go all in with a super high savings rate, epic plans for real estate and high cashflow projections, etc. Many of them start their own blogs. The same mantras about FI and earning their freedom.

          Then after a few years, they gain some perspective and realize they're losing something in the race to FI, that life in the present is worth enjoying as well and that balance is important. I think it's interesting that people believe they can spend 10% of their gross income for years then suddenly they can shift from exceptional accumulation to a steady state of drawdown or preservation. I think often, both goals and goal posts change as we mature.

          So I read this latest chronicle with some interest but I can't help but feel like this is just the first few chapters and the details and plans are not that important. I do think it will definitely end well, but just quite a bit different than what they currently imagine.

          Comment


          • #6
            I just remind myself that the people who crash and burn in real estate aren’t offering their cautionary tales on these podcasts, and even if they were, I’m not sure they would be accepted as guests.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by familydocPA View Post
              Presumably making $500k+ per year (and likely substantially more) as a rural interventional cardiologist, it seems feasible with a high savings rate.

              But I will say, I never quite understand the rationale of absolutely grinding for so many years (a good 20 years including education) just to be able to come to a complete stop.
              Life is not a sprint. Sprint if you like. This pharmacy tech has worked for 62 years! It seems she has finally become a "slacker" and cut back to part time.
              https://www.khou.com/article/feature...2-0577d3608adc

              I doubt it was because on money. The point is not "shaming" for having financial goals or how one uses their time. It is how you and those you impact benefit from your "gifts" and work. I think "job satisfaction" is a worthy goal as well. Because of the significant effort, I would hope all physicians feel a sense of accomplishment from their craft. That is valuable.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Tim View Post

                Life is not a sprint. Sprint if you like. This pharmacy tech has worked for 62 years! It seems she has finally become a "slacker" and cut back to part time.
                https://www.khou.com/article/feature...2-0577d3608adc

                I doubt it was because on money. The point is not "shaming" for having financial goals or how one uses their time. It is how you and those you impact benefit from your "gifts" and work. I think "job satisfaction" is a worthy goal as well. Because of the significant effort, I would hope all physicians feel a sense of accomplishment from their craft. That is valuable.
                There's no "shaming" - I just don't believe that the type of person who will grind to a 5-7 mil net worth in 5 years is just going to hang it up on the beach for the rest of their life

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by familydocPA View Post
                  Presumably making $500k+ per year (and likely substantially more) as a rural interventional cardiologist, it seems feasible with a high savings rate.

                  But I will say, I never quite understand the rationale of absolutely grinding for so many years (a good 20 years including education) just to be able to come to a complete stop.
                  Im on track to become FI about 6 yrs out of training, Im currently a bit over 3 yrs out. High income, high savings rate, and not a ton of vacation (still doesnt feel too bad compared to brutal residency). I didnt read the article, but while I dont plan to come to a complete stop once FI, I like that idea that Id have the option to.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Life is about the journey as well as how you get there. Being (fat)FI even without the RE just gives you a lot of options. Options to keep working, go part time, or just stop altogether.

                    I think more and more of the younger generation have aspirations of RE. They’re ok living in a tiny house or in a van by the river while enjoying national parks. They don’t need the white picket fence house and 2.3 kids. This spills into medicine as well. More people are about lifestyle rather than a full illustrious career.

                    This desire for lifestyle can mean part time work right out of residency for longer or the above grinding it out to reach their financial goals as soon as possible.

                    Personally I still enjoy operating but the stress of call/possible complications and interrupted sleep isn’t worth it anymore. It’s given us options to move closer to family and work when we want.

                    I’m still grinding my net worth higher in my new “career” and don’t know if/when I’ll stop.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Not super interesting discussing a couple likely making > 1 M a year with no kids gaining FI.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I’m wondering how they came up with the goal of 300k/year. It seems like sometimes people who haven’t experienced enough in life pull a number out of one of their orifices and call it a day. I think it’s important to gradually increase your lifestyle along the way and have some extravagances, both for the experience itself and also so you can learn what type of person you are—i.e. are you someone who wants to live a lifestyle of the rich n famous or do you prefer to be mostly low-key. And then get a more accurate number of what it will take to sustain your desired lifestyle.

                        Also, if you are someone who calculates how much money you are not making when you on vacation, that is not something that will magically turn off once you hit some magic number. You have to train the way you think about money.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Lithium View Post
                          I just remind myself that the people who crash and burn in real estate aren’t offering their cautionary tales on these podcasts, and even if they were, I’m not sure they would be accepted as guests.
                          That would actually be an interesting idea for a podcast. Only have those on to talk about their unsuccessful ventures.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
                            I think more and more of the younger generation have aspirations of RE. They’re ok living in a tiny house or in a van by the river while enjoying national parks. They don’t need the white picket fence house and 2.3 kids. This spills into medicine as well. More people are about lifestyle rather than a full illustrious career.
                            I think the younger generations are definitely into a work/life balance that seems lazy to the older generations. I had always hoped that with COVID we would see the US start manufacturing a lot more stuff in the US even though it would undoubtedly raise some prices (along with quality). With that said, I honestly don't think our workforce has the 'want to' to pull something off like that even if a lot of manufacturing revolves around machines.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Yeah, they are young and in the earlier chapters of a book that has not yet been written. I am in the later chapters of my book. I worked hard and saved and invested in real estate before the word FIRE had been conceived. And we became wealthy so now we can do whatever we want. My spouse chose to retire, but I still like to work part time in between lots of outdoor exercise and travel.

                              It is likely true that a lot of us overachievers don't do the sitting still and chilling thing all that well. I know that is clearly the case for me.

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