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Discuss Latest WCI Blog Post: How to Get What You Deserve as a High-Earning Woman

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  • Discuss Latest WCI Blog Post: How to Get What You Deserve as a High-Earning Woman

    Implement these strategies to minimize or even eliminate the gender pay gap from your life and reap the benefits of earlier financial independence.

    Click here to view the article!
    Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

  • #2
    There are actually many studies that have been done that show there is no gender pay gap. Here is one from Harvard:
    https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bo..._gendergap.pdf

    There area a couple of great economists, Dr. Thomas Sowell and Dr. Walter Williams who have also written on the subject and have found the same thing, that choices women make account for the pay difference. I haven’t seen any studies specific to medicine.

    Certainly there are personal anecdotes that women experience as described in the comments under the blog article but who knows what the real circumstances were. A woman CT surgeon stated in the comments under the article that she experienced a gender pay gap however she also said that she spent 4x more time with her patients than the men, did that result in decreased productivity?

    In my field of practice and in my group the women earn the exact same money as the men. I’m sure there are some outlier practices where gaps exist but I don’t think its the norm.I know if I were a woman in a practice and was experiencing an unfair pay gap it would really tick me off and I would be out of that job in a flash.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by K82 View Post
      There are actually many studies that have been done that show there is no gender pay gap. Here is one from Harvard:
      https://scholar.harvard.edu/files/bo..._gendergap.pdf
      i am not an expert on this topic but that study does not indicate that there is no gender pay gap, it's explains overall wage discrepancy in one very specific system with public pay structures.

      this is a very charged issue and people make up their mind before they do any knowledge acquisition. that said, i think it is very naive to suggest that all gender pay gaps are caused by choices women make in the work place. if nothing else that begs the question of whether said choices are really choices at all or inevitable reactions to challenging circumstances.

      Comment


      • #4
        There is bias throughout the payment system in medicine. I believe as certain fields "feminized" reimbursements declined. I have seen this happen in OB/GYN. This is not a negotiation problem. Most of my career I owned my practice.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by MPMD View Post

          i am not an expert on this topic but that study does not indicate that there is no gender pay gap, it's explains overall wage discrepancy in one very specific system with public pay structures.

          this is a very charged issue and people make up their mind before they do any knowledge acquisition. that said, i think it is very naive to suggest that all gender pay gaps are caused by choices women make in the work place. if nothing else that begs the question of whether said choices are really choices at all or inevitable reactions to challenging circumstances.
          It does say that there is no gender pay gap in the area studied. If the differences in hours and times worked between the two genders were the same, the pay would be the same. This is the finding in multiple studies looking at this issue.

          I stated in my post that I haven't seen a study looking at possible pay gaps in medicine. In my area of practice a pay gap does not exist. My pay is based on how many shifts I work and the women in my group are paid the exact same as me for shifts worked. For many years I worked far more hours than anyone else in my group and therefore got paid a lot more than my partners. You could argue that there was indeed a pay gap at that time. I think most people would agree that it was justified. That's my argument with these "studies" that get people all worked up. You can make statistics say anything you want.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hatton View Post
            There is bias throughout the payment system in medicine. I believe as certain fields "feminized" reimbursements declined. I have seen this happen in OB/GYN. This is not a negotiation problem. Most of my career I owned my practice.
            I would be interested to hear what bias you have observed or experienced. I'm not suggesting it doesn't exist in some areas, I just haven't seen it and I know for a fact it does not exist in my group.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by K82 View Post

              I would be interested to hear what bias you have observed or experienced. I'm not suggesting it doesn't exist in some areas, I just haven't seen it and I know for a fact it does not exist in my group.
              There was a study looking at wRVU reimbursement for Urology vs. Ob/Gyn procedures. 80+% of the fairly equal male urology procedures earned higher wRVU than when done on a female. For instance: In office vulvar biopsy was worth ~3wRVU but in office scrotal biopsy was worth ~10wRVU! Being that OB/Gyn is female dominated and urology is male dominated field, that is an example of a gender pay gap.

              Comment


              • #8
                [QUOTE=SLC OB;n263367]

                There was a study looking at wRVU reimbursement for Urology vs. Ob/Gyn procedures. 80+% of the fairly equal male urology procedures earned higher wRVU than when done on a female. For instance: In office vulvar biopsy was worth ~3wRVU but in office scrotal biopsy was worth ~10wRVU! Being that OB/Gyn is female dominated and urology is male dominated field, that is an example of a gender pay gap. [/QUOTE

                I don’t think that that proves that there is a gender pay gap. If a male OB/GYN performs a vulvar biopsy in office and a female OB/GYN performs a vulvar biopsy in office they both get paid the same. This sounds more to me like giving a significant discount to women to have a vulvar biopsy versus a significant increased cost for a male have any scrotal biopsy

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=K82;n263375]
                  Originally posted by SLC OB View Post

                  There was a study looking at wRVU reimbursement for Urology vs. Ob/Gyn procedures. 80+% of the fairly equal male urology procedures earned higher wRVU than when done on a female. For instance: In office vulvar biopsy was worth ~3wRVU but in office scrotal biopsy was worth ~10wRVU! Being that OB/Gyn is female dominated and urology is male dominated field, that is an example of a gender pay gap. [/QUOTE

                  I don’t think that that proves that there is a gender pay gap. If a male OB/GYN performs a vulvar biopsy in office and a female OB/GYN performs a vulvar biopsy in office they both get paid the same. This sounds more to me like giving a significant discount to women to have a vulvar biopsy versus a significant increased cost for a male have any scrotal biopsy
                  No the issue is that since OB/GYN has become predominated by female practitioners the reimbursement for various procedures has not increased on par with urological procedures. No one is saying that a female is paid less for the same exact procedure. The bias is in insurance company reimbursements.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by K82 View Post

                    It does say that there is no gender pay gap in the area studied. If the differences in hours and times worked between the two genders were the same, the pay would be the same. This is the finding in multiple studies looking at this issue.
                    This is false. I'll recant if you want to go ahead and cite those studies and they actually show that.

                    What the vast majority of those other studies show is that when the differences are accounted for the gap almost disappears, but not completely. It goes to a very small amount (normally <5%). What is unclear is if this small amount is a real difference or just a limitation of the particular study.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      [QUOTE=Hatton;n263379]
                      Originally posted by K82 View Post

                      No the issue is that since OB/GYN has become predominated by female practitioners the reimbursement for various procedures has not increased on par with urological procedures. No one is saying that a female is paid less for the same exact procedure. The bias is in insurance company reimbursements.
                      I wonder what the gender makeup on the RUC is like

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by SLC OB View Post

                        There was a study looking at wRVU reimbursement for Urology vs. Ob/Gyn procedures. 80+% of the fairly equal male urology procedures earned higher wRVU than when done on a female. For instance: In office vulvar biopsy was worth ~3wRVU but in office scrotal biopsy was worth ~10wRVU! Being that OB/Gyn is female dominated and urology is male dominated field, that is an example of a gender pay gap.
                        This strained credulity so much, that I had to look it up. It doesn't seem like this is correct.

                        First of all, the proper code for a scrotal biopsy is a skin biopsy as I don't think there is a scrotum specific code. Depending on how the biopsy is performed, it is worth anywhere from 0.66 to 1.01 wRVU (11102-11106)

                        There is a code for penile biopsy (54100) that is worth 1.9 wRVU.

                        There is a code for vulvar/perineal biopsy(56605) that is worth 1.1 wRVU.

                        So a vulvar biopsy is more wRVU than a scrotum and less than a penis. And the difference is nowhere near the magnitude of what you suggested.

                        It's possible you may be referring to different codes. If so, please post them.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          [QUOTE=Hatton;n263379]
                          Originally posted by K82 View Post

                          No the issue is that since OB/GYN has become predominated by female practitioners the reimbursement for various procedures has not increased on par with urological procedures. No one is saying that a female is paid less for the same exact procedure. The bias is in insurance company reimbursements.
                          Is this related to bias or to poor negotiated rates from the OB/Gyn Reps? Insurance companies are always going to pay as little as they possibly can, my specialty and my group does nonstop battle with them. I have a hard time believing that in the meeting for determining reimbursements rates the discussion goes: "Well, most of the Docs doing this procedure are women so lets pay them less". I'm skeptical.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by AR View Post

                            This strained credulity so much, that I had to look it up. It doesn't seem like this is correct.

                            First of all, the proper code for a scrotal biopsy is a skin biopsy as I don't think there is a scrotum specific code. Depending on how the biopsy is performed, it is worth anywhere from 0.66 to 1.01 wRVU (11102-11106)

                            There is a code for penile biopsy (54100) that is worth 1.9 wRVU.

                            There is a code for vulvar/perineal biopsy(56605) that is worth 1.1 wRVU.

                            So a vulvar biopsy is more wRVU than a scrotum and less than a penis. And the difference is nowhere near the magnitude of what you suggested.

                            It's possible you may be referring to different codes. If so, please post them.
                            https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...90825816316249

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AR View Post

                              This is false. I'll recant if you want to go ahead and cite those studies and they actually show that.

                              What the vast majority of those other studies show is that when the differences are accounted for the gap almost disappears, but not completely. It goes to a very small amount (normally <5%). What is unclear is if this small amount is a real difference or just a limitation of the particular study.
                              How many studies do you want me to cite for you to recant?

                              Comment

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