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  • Course for medical students

    Since there a lot mistakes keep on recurring or being made by physicians again and again - looking at threads and general postings on front page; is it not better to have a medical student finance 101 course? I say this because I am "invited" by MS4 class to give something like that as my "mini-course" was a hit in residency. So I was almost thinking about making one and throwing it up online.

    Don't want to put in any effort if

    1. Some such resource is out there already.

    2. WCI is making one?

     

  • #2
    I don't know of a resource. I believe WCI has mentioned before but also that he's got a lot of other projects on his plate.

    We've been approached to offer one in conjunction with a medical school but don't know if it will pan out. We've been tossing around the idea about doing just what you mentioned but we've just been too busy. I would enjoy collaborating. I'm thinking of a series, not a 1-hour course that goes over highlights, with Q&A and interaction.
    Working to protect good doctors from bad advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

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    • #3




      I don’t know of a resource. I believe WCI has mentioned before but also that he’s got a lot of other projects on his plate.

      We’ve been approached to offer one in conjunction with a medical school but don’t know if it will pan out. We’ve been tossing around the idea about doing just what you mentioned but we’ve just been too busy. I would enjoy collaborating. I’m thinking of a series, not a 1-hour course that goes over highlights, with Q&A and interaction.
      Click to expand...


      Yea the thing is - humble brag alert - I have heard some from some old attending as a student but it was so boring. I believe to be great you need to have/be:

      1. Great knowledge

      2. This is important: Dynamic speaker.

      I'd consider myself #2. Still working on #1. But I think because of 2 word got around about my lecture and now they want to make it like a 4 part "series".

       

       

      Would take effort! You should do it - I bet it'll get hits.

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      • #4
        I'm in the process of putting something together for my affiliated med school and would be down if you wanted to collaborate.  I've also done educational stuff for my residency, and refer my colleagues to this site a lot.

        I will say that at the national level the AAMC already has a lot of resources (extended video series already available on youtube, loan repayment options planner, financial planning partnership) on their website that aren't too terrible, and now the AOA is working on something similar.  The lack of knowledge is there for sure. There might be interest... or not.

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        • #5
          I'm an MS3 (about to be MS4  ) who has read nearly every WCI blog for the past 2 years---if you need someone to bounce ideas off of to determine what is "high yield" for my fellow student-colleagues, I would definitely be willing to help.  Unfortunately, I get glazed over blank stares from 90% of people I talk to about personal finance.

           

          One good thing--I've noticed many of them have said "yeah my attending mentioned something about WCI". Unfortunately, they never followed through with finding the website usually

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          • #6
            Our school has a series as part of its 'Professional Competencies' course.  It is reasonable but IMHO is not nearly hard enough on the Financial Management Industry.  It is very practical.  Co-ordinated by an MD MBA who was very active in putting together a similar programme for the provincial resident association.  It is heavily weighted to issues faced by MD students and residents and less so to those faced by new attendings and those in practice.  On the negative side, the school still gives FA groups fairly unrestricted access to the students in 'Lunch and Learn' settings.  What a terrible name for these sessions.  Students do occasionally get directed to WCI when certain attendings are in the audience.

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            • #7




              I’m an MS3 (about to be MS4 ? ) who has read nearly every WCI blog for the past 2 years—if you need someone to bounce ideas off of to determine what is “high yield” for my fellow student-colleagues, I would definitely be willing to help.  Unfortunately, I get glazed over blank stares from 90% of people I talk to about personal finance.

               

              One good thing–I’ve noticed many of them have said “yeah my attending mentioned something about WCI”. Unfortunately, they never followed through with finding the website usually
              Click to expand...


              Will for sure utilize your help if I embark on this venture




              I’m in the process of putting something together for my affiliated med school and would be down if you wanted to collaborate.  I’ve also done educational stuff for my residency, and refer my colleagues to this site a lot.

              I will say that at the national level the AAMC already has a lot of resources (extended video series already available on youtube, loan repayment options planner, financial planning partnership) on their website that aren’t too terrible, and now the AOA is working on something similar.  The lack of knowledge is there for sure. There might be interest… or not.
              Click to expand...


              Hope to ping you in the future..FutureDoc!

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              • #8
                I would be interested in giving feedback on any resources that you come up with. I am in a similar boat jpa above in that many of the students at my medical school have really not taken the time to think or learn about finances. We have a problem based learning curriculum where we essentially teach other 3/5 days of the week, and I began taking 5-15 minutes on Fridays in order to shed some light on basic financial and retirement concepts. They seemed to appreciate it, and it would be nice to see a resource that can scale easily.

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                • #9
                  over the years i have heard many things proposed to add to the curriculum to make for better physicians (generally along the lines of how can i make physicians do what i want instead of what they think is good for their patients)

                  organizational skills

                  presentation skills

                  teamwork skills

                  root cause analysis

                  deeper statistical analysis

                  MPH

                  MBA

                  risk management

                  get more involved with AMA

                  policy fellowship

                  innovation training

                  financial literacy

                  by the time they finish all these things, there won't be time for medical courses anymore.

                  new medial schools have a theme-administration, innovation, engineering

                   

                  get off my lawn!

                  although it is obviously a very important area, it still seems to me that this is not a medical education issue.  i say no to finance 101 course.

                  as a gross generalization, any new doctor needs better medical skills.  if people want to (and should) educate themselves about finance, that is their own business and should be on their own time.  they can get advice from trusted mentors, friends, and family about their specific situation.  they can read blogs.  they can hire a professional.   they have much more room for making practical decisions as residents than as medical students.   if you are on bogleheads, they would say why is medical school different than any other education?  why not make it a college requirement?  or a high school requirement, if you are going to institutionalize financial literacy?  (i disagree with bogleheads).

                  let the hating begin.

                   

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                  • #10




                    over the years i have heard many things proposed to add to the curriculum to make for better physicians (generally along the lines of how can i make physicians do what i want instead of what they think is good for their patients)

                    organizational skills

                    presentation skills

                    teamwork skills

                    root cause analysis

                    deeper statistical analysis

                    MPH

                    MBA

                    risk management

                    get more involved with AMA

                    policy fellowship

                    innovation training

                    financial literacy

                    by the time they finish all these things, there won’t be time for medical courses anymore.

                    new medial schools have a theme-administration, innovation, engineering

                     

                    get off my lawn!

                    although it is obviously a very important area, it still seems to me that this is not a medical education issue.  i say no to finance 101 course.

                    as a gross generalization, any new doctor needs better medical skills.  if people want to (and should) educate themselves about finance, that is their own business and should be on their own time.  they can get advice from trusted mentors, friends, and family about their specific situation.  they can read blogs.  they can hire a professional.   they have much more room for making practical decisions as residents than as medical students.   if you are on bogleheads, they would say why is medical school different than any other education?  why not make it a college requirement?  or a high school requirement, if you are going to institutionalize financial literacy?  (i disagree with bogleheads).

                    let the hating begin.

                     
                    Click to expand...


                    I actually agree with this the more I think about it (at least regarding medical school).  People have been very interested in heaping on all sorts of additional "necessary" training.  In this setting the main purpose gets diluted.  Now in high school (or even college) I think you have an argument since most of those schools have training requirements anyway that pertain to developing a broad knowledge base.  Why should finance be considered part of this necessary knowledge base?  I think it is far more important than learning a 2nd language (in a traditional sense).  If offered in medical school it would be best delivered as an optional adjunct to the necessary training that society expects of us.

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                    • #11
                      As someone who has a blog dedicated to helping med students learn more about money and making better decisions, I'll say most students don't have "the ears to hear". So, I think if you can be ok with 10% of students walking away with something long-lasting, then go for it. There's a slim crowd that will benefit from what you share, but they will benefit immensely!

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                      • #12
                        I have a PPT I did for MS students (modified from my resident talk), I am always updating it but can send u the one I have so far, feel free to use/modify, whatever. PM me your email.

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                        • #13




                          As someone who has a blog dedicated to helping med students learn more about money and making better decisions, I’ll say most students don’t have “the ears to hear”. So, I think if you can be ok with 10% of students walking away with something long-lasting, then go for it. There’s a slim crowd that will benefit from what you share, but they will benefit immensely!
                          Click to expand...


                          Not everyone has heard of WCI though. Just saw a medical student this am in my clinic and wrote it down on a piece of paper for him/her to read.

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                          • #14


                            2. WCI is making one?
                            Click to expand...


                            He has mentioned developing a course of some kind. It may be in conjunction with the course at U of Arkansas.

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                            • #15
                              With these quotes from that article I think there definitely is interest out there:

                               

                              "One hundred percent of students felt the knowledge gained from the course would be helpful to them, and 90% of students felt the course should be mandatory throughout medical school."

                              "The first class started with 74/160 students, increased to 96 students this past year, and currently 124 are scheduled for next year’s class."

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