How many hours per year do you work?

[Kamban]

Winkleweizen wrote:

Ahhh, we interviewed at the same group in Reno. When they told me 5 years of night shifts and making diddly until I became a partner, I laughed and hit the slots.

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I am always curious about these type of jobs. Who in their right mind would work 5 years of nights as an attending, after working brutal hours as a residents. Does the group not have brains to attract decent candidates with decent work schedule.

I once went to Tampa 20 years ago to join a group of three. Found out the main partner owned 70 % and other 30 % of the practice. They never talked about partnership. They did not even mention the 3rd person who worked in a different city. I managed to track him and call him after coming home, in order to hear the full story. When I got a contract with no definite partnership track and asked them about it, they replied that they will evaluate me after 2 years and then decide. I laughed and said no thanks, I am already an employee currently and have no interest in becoming one of theirs..

From then onward I refused to go to interviews unless I have all details sent to me. I did not want to waste their time or my time in these useless trips. And these were pre TSA interviews.

[Psyched]

Slav4ikMD, mind asking if you work at a state hospital? If so I would like to PM you!

[Winkleweizen]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

i get so jealous sometimes reading these forums.  i calculated 2300 hours per year.  q2 call.  2 weeks vacation, 1 week of holidays.

 

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Why would you choose that life? Are you in some untenable financial or personal situation that forces you to do more call and have less time off than any resident these days does? You’re in control here. You are the one with the valuable skills wanted all over the country. When I was interviewing for jobs at the end of my military time there were two groups I was interested in, but I became uninterested due to what I saw as deals I didn’t have to put up with:

# 1 A group in Boise that would require me to commute to Sun Valley to do a few shifts a month

# 2 A group in Reno that wanted me to work all nights for 5 years because that was what they had all done

I said “Thanks but no thanks” and didn’t pursue either further.

If I were in your shoes and someone said “Q2 Call” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

If I were in your shoes and someone said “2 weeks vacation” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

I am super curious why you did not and by staying, basically continue to not say that.

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Ahhh, we interviewed at the same group in Reno.  When they told me 5 years of night shifts and making diddly until I became a partner, I laughed and hit the slots.

[Kamban]

Otodoc wrote:

Any one day of call isn’t terrible but you would be hard pressed to take more than 10 days in a row without losing your sanity. In an average month (15 days of call), i get woke up 10 nights for a phone call and half of those calls require me to go in and see patient and maybe operate on them. Plus on weekends, we usually have one or two patients in house that i have to go see. Kid has a ball game out of town- can’t go if you’re on call (luckily none of my kids play ball!) Wife wants you to go see in laws an hour away–can’t go if you’re on call (sometimes a good thing!) Going to church- have to drive separate from rest of my family in case i get called back in. It’s a chronic annoyance. And pager anxiety is a real thing,. I’m convinced i’m gonna fall over dead from a MI one day with that darn thing starts beeping!

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If I had a choice I would do it at blocks of 15 days rather than alternate days. You get woken up 10 days and maybe go in 5 days. So what. You can get 15 days off to do what you want in the evenings. Maybe have a drink without worrying about being called out. Take a nice 3 day weekend out of town.

As to the kid's ball games, not going to in-laws house and going separately to church, these are minor inconveniences. Well worth getting a block of 15 days of no call.

[Bleu]

Anesthesia.  in-house call q6.  Probably average 60hrs/wk.  10wks vacation.  2,500 hrs/yr

[Antares]

Sounds more like call tolerance has developed than that it's nothing. And the pager anxiety - which I relate to - does that suggest that there's more of an emotional impact than might appear on the surface?

[The White Coat Investor]

Otodoc wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

i get so jealous sometimes reading these forums.  i calculated 2300 hours per year.  q2 call.  2 weeks vacation, 1 week of holidays.

 

Click to expand…

Why would you choose that life? Are you in some untenable financial or personal situation that forces you to do more call and have less time off than any resident these days does? You’re in control here. You are the one with the valuable skills wanted all over the country. When I was interviewing for jobs at the end of my military time there were two groups I was interested in, but I became uninterested due to what I saw as deals I didn’t have to put up with:

# 1 A group in Boise that would require me to commute to Sun Valley to do a few shifts a month

# 2 A group in Reno that wanted me to work all nights for 5 years because that was what they had all done

I said “Thanks but no thanks” and didn’t pursue either further.

If I were in your shoes and someone said “Q2 Call” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

If I were in your shoes and someone said “2 weeks vacation” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

I am super curious why you did not and by staying, basically continue to not say that.

Click to expand…

main issue is that i really want to keep living here.,  Very big family that all lives here where i grew up.  Surgical sub specialist in private practice– there are only two of us, so call is q2.  No other physicians in my specialty are close enough to where I practice to share call with us.  And town is not large enough to support a third partner.   As to vacation, i could take more, but income drops quickly when I take vacation since overhead does not pause when I am away from office.  And it’s pretty terrible to come back from a long vacation, knowing that you have to take extra call to make it even with your partner.  As you can see from my username, I’m an ENT, and in a pretty rural area, so call is not bad most of the time, it’s just that i’m unable to leave town when on call. As bad as my situation might sound to some, the idea of living in a city big enough to support 5 or 6 guys to share call with would be untenable for me.  I grew up on a farm and can’t stand the city.

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If call is no biggie, why not do a month of it at a time? At least then you could take more vacation even if the call still works out to q2. (although if you only get called twice a month, is it really “q2 call?”)

Any one day of call isn’t terrible but you would be hard pressed to take more than 10 days in a row without losing your sanity.  In an average month (15 days of call), i get woke up 10 nights for a phone call and half of those calls require me to go in and see patient and maybe operate on them.  Plus on weekends, we usually have one or two patients in house that i have to go see.  Kid has a ball game out of town- can’t go if you’re on call (luckily none of my kids play ball!)  Wife wants you to go see in laws an hour away–can’t go if you’re on call (sometimes a good thing!)  Going to church- have to drive separate from rest of my family in case i get called back in.  It’s a chronic annoyance.  And pager anxiety is a real thing,.  I’m convinced i’m gonna fall over dead from a MI one day with that darn thing starts beeping!

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That doesn't sound like call is no-biggie if you're coming in one out of three days.

[Otodoc]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

i get so jealous sometimes reading these forums.  i calculated 2300 hours per year.  q2 call.  2 weeks vacation, 1 week of holidays.

 

Click to expand…

Why would you choose that life? Are you in some untenable financial or personal situation that forces you to do more call and have less time off than any resident these days does? You’re in control here. You are the one with the valuable skills wanted all over the country. When I was interviewing for jobs at the end of my military time there were two groups I was interested in, but I became uninterested due to what I saw as deals I didn’t have to put up with:

# 1 A group in Boise that would require me to commute to Sun Valley to do a few shifts a month

# 2 A group in Reno that wanted me to work all nights for 5 years because that was what they had all done

I said “Thanks but no thanks” and didn’t pursue either further.

If I were in your shoes and someone said “Q2 Call” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

If I were in your shoes and someone said “2 weeks vacation” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

I am super curious why you did not and by staying, basically continue to not say that.

Click to expand…

main issue is that i really want to keep living here.,  Very big family that all lives here where i grew up.  Surgical sub specialist in private practice– there are only two of us, so call is q2.  No other physicians in my specialty are close enough to where I practice to share call with us.  And town is not large enough to support a third partner.   As to vacation, i could take more, but income drops quickly when I take vacation since overhead does not pause when I am away from office.  And it’s pretty terrible to come back from a long vacation, knowing that you have to take extra call to make it even with your partner.  As you can see from my username, I’m an ENT, and in a pretty rural area, so call is not bad most of the time, it’s just that i’m unable to leave town when on call. As bad as my situation might sound to some, the idea of living in a city big enough to support 5 or 6 guys to share call with would be untenable for me.  I grew up on a farm and can’t stand the city.

Click to expand…

If call is no biggie, why not do a month of it at a time? At least then you could take more vacation even if the call still works out to q2. (although if you only get called twice a month, is it really “q2 call?”)

Any one day of call isn't terrible but you would be hard pressed to take more than 10 days in a row without losing your sanity.  In an average month (15 days of call), i get woke up 10 nights for a phone call and half of those calls require me to go in and see patient and maybe operate on them.  Plus on weekends, we usually have one or two patients in house that i have to go see.  Kid has a ball game out of town- can't go if you're on call (luckily none of my kids play ball!)  Wife wants you to go see in laws an hour away--can't go if you're on call (sometimes a good thing!)  Going to church- have to drive separate from rest of my family in case i get called back in.  It's a chronic annoyance.  And pager anxiety is a real thing,.  I'm convinced i'm gonna fall over dead from a MI one day with that darn thing starts beeping!

[The White Coat Investor]

Otodoc wrote:

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

i get so jealous sometimes reading these forums.  i calculated 2300 hours per year.  q2 call.  2 weeks vacation, 1 week of holidays.

 

Click to expand…

Why would you choose that life? Are you in some untenable financial or personal situation that forces you to do more call and have less time off than any resident these days does? You’re in control here. You are the one with the valuable skills wanted all over the country. When I was interviewing for jobs at the end of my military time there were two groups I was interested in, but I became uninterested due to what I saw as deals I didn’t have to put up with:

# 1 A group in Boise that would require me to commute to Sun Valley to do a few shifts a month

# 2 A group in Reno that wanted me to work all nights for 5 years because that was what they had all done

I said “Thanks but no thanks” and didn’t pursue either further.

If I were in your shoes and someone said “Q2 Call” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

If I were in your shoes and someone said “2 weeks vacation” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

I am super curious why you did not and by staying, basically continue to not say that.

Click to expand…

main issue is that i really want to keep living here.,  Very big family that all lives here where i grew up.  Surgical sub specialist in private practice– there are only two of us, so call is q2.  No other physicians in my specialty are close enough to where I practice to share call with us.  And town is not large enough to support a third partner.   As to vacation, i could take more, but income drops quickly when I take vacation since overhead does not pause when I am away from office.  And it’s pretty terrible to come back from a long vacation, knowing that you have to take extra call to make it even with your partner.  As you can see from my username, I’m an ENT, and in a pretty rural area, so call is not bad most of the time, it’s just that i’m unable to leave town when on call. As bad as my situation might sound to some, the idea of living in a city big enough to support 5 or 6 guys to share call with would be untenable for me.  I grew up on a farm and can’t stand the city.

Click to expand...

If call is no biggie, why not do a month of it at a time? At least then you could take more vacation even if the call still works out to q2. (although if you only get called twice a month, is it really "q2 call?")

[Slav4ikMD]

Zaphod, I do well.  Long story.  I have a so so paying employed position that offers me great retirement benefits, loan repayment etc, so it's worth sticking with, then I have an opportunity to do in-house call which is super easy, pays well and I get paid to sleep much of the time (so sleep hours are included) and on top of that I am building a direct pay private practice and doing some other projects.  So the hours add up, but I also have a lot of flexibility, so when I want a 3 day weekend or a vacation I have it.  It's not as bad as it may sound. And I do hope to cut back down the line, I am still in my 30's so can hustle for now.  Also I live in an expensive area, am kind of OCD about contributing to all the possible retirement options, etc - you get the point.

[Zaphod]

Slav4ikMD wrote:

This is tough for me to answer as I work a lot of hours (in the >3000 camp), but probably more than half of it is downtime (where I do things like go on this site, other site, read, chit chat, etc) – I basically get all my other life stuff done at work, aside from the fun things that I do when I am off, and sleep of course.  Many of my hours are bundled into long in-house call stretches, so that skews things.  I am gradually shifting things toward more direct pay private practice, so will be working less hours, but they will be “busy hours” so I will spend more of the other time paying my bills, making calls, planning vacations etc. (PS I am in psychiatry as well, as I imagine the poster is as well).

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I hope you're raking it in because you still have to be there. I have tons of free time on most clinic days as well, heck even on some surgery days as the efficiency in turnover and consults, follow ups just isnt perfect. I have had a couple crazy times where I have more turnover than operative time which really drives me crazy as I've "wasted" 50% of the time. Its frustrating even if it cant reasonably or logistically be corrected.

[Slav4ikMD]

This is tough for me to answer as I work a lot of hours (in the >3000 camp), but probably more than half of it is downtime (where I do things like go on this site, other site, read, chit chat, etc) - I basically get all my other life stuff done at work, aside from the fun things that I do when I am off, and sleep of course.  Many of my hours are bundled into long in-house call stretches, so that skews things.  I am gradually shifting things toward more direct pay private practice, so will be working less hours, but they will be "busy hours" so I will spend more of the other time paying my bills, making calls, planning vacations etc. (PS I am in psychiatry as well, as I imagine the poster is as well).

[Osiris]

I work 50 hours a week for 44 weeks and I do not count call since I do not have to go in "ever". This is 2200 hours a year. Call may be crazy making especially if they ware my own patients. It is so much better if the crazy ones are not yours.

 

The big question is not how many hours per year do you work but do you feel what you do is worthwhile and do you feel you get rewarded aequately  for what you do.

 

[Otodoc]

The White Coat Investor wrote:

Otodoc wrote:

i get so jealous sometimes reading these forums.  i calculated 2300 hours per year.  q2 call.  2 weeks vacation, 1 week of holidays.

 

Click to expand…

Why would you choose that life? Are you in some untenable financial or personal situation that forces you to do more call and have less time off than any resident these days does? You’re in control here. You are the one with the valuable skills wanted all over the country. When I was interviewing for jobs at the end of my military time there were two groups I was interested in, but I became uninterested due to what I saw as deals I didn’t have to put up with:

# 1 A group in Boise that would require me to commute to Sun Valley to do a few shifts a month

# 2 A group in Reno that wanted me to work all nights for 5 years because that was what they had all done

I said “Thanks but no thanks” and didn’t pursue either further.

If I were in your shoes and someone said “Q2 Call” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

If I were in your shoes and someone said “2 weeks vacation” I would have said “Thanks but no thanks.”

I am super curious why you did not and by staying, basically continue to not say that.

Click to expand...

main issue is that i really want to keep living here.,  Very big family that all lives here where i grew up.  Surgical sub specialist in private practice-- there are only two of us, so call is q2.  No other physicians in my specialty are close enough to where I practice to share call with us.  And town is not large enough to support a third partner.   As to vacation, i could take more, but income drops quickly when I take vacation since overhead does not pause when I am away from office.  And it's pretty terrible to come back from a long vacation, knowing that you have to take extra call to make it even with your partner.  As you can see from my username, I'm an ENT, and in a pretty rural area, so call is not bad most of the time, it's just that i'm unable to leave town when on call. As bad as my situation might sound to some, the idea of living in a city big enough to support 5 or 6 guys to share call with would be untenable for me.  I grew up on a farm and can't stand the city.

[SomeRandomGuyOnline]

I work about 12-14 shifts a month which equates to 1300-1400 hours a year.