MD interested in mobile IV hydration side hustle

[jfoxcpacfp]

Panscan wrote:

Because we don’t endorse things that aren’t needed, bc poking someone’s arm is not wholly benign.. Do no harm is allopathic medicine. We don’t do things just to do things.

Bottled water isn’t breaking skin or causing a venotomy.

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I have been wondering as I read the criticisms throughout this thread - what are the collective feelings of the critics on vanity procedures such as facelifts, Botox, teeth and breast implants? Not talking about someone who needs a nose job to breathe better, but “things that aren’t needed”.

[Anne]

Agree with ddswifey. Not worth your time or brain power.

You can't use the guy in Vegas as an example. Just the experience of being in Vegas changes people's view of money and they will blow $300 on stuff they never would spend $300 on at home, whether that be an IV bag, a designer trinket, or 15 minutes at the blackjack table. It's all funny money and people's sense goes out the window and they think the story of getting iv fluids in a bus after their night partying in Vegas will be a good story to tell their friends. They are not going to spend the same amount of $ for that in Anytown, USA

I think it's funny the Vegas guy seems to think that IV fluids for hangovers was his original idea.

[VagabondMD]

There are a lot of ways that you can use your MD degree, your knowledge, and your skill set to earn money. Not all of them are ethical or dignified and becoming of a physician. Everyone has to determine where this line for themselves.

BTW, my college age son had a brainstorm that he should start such a “business”. Apparently, there is great demand.

[MPMD]

I really enjoy reading some of the editorializing when stuff like this comes up.

The OP doesn't want to do full time medicine in their 60s and is asking about starting a business using a model that has been successful in multiple other venues.

I really don't get all of the editorializing about people who would use a service like this or those who would provide it. This is a forum that tends to skew very free-market when it comes to other topics, if he finds a need and fills it well what is wrong with that? Is the OP doing anything unethical? Well if they say that their 1L NS and shot of B12 is going to fix actual medical problems then yes, they are. If they are just giving bags of fluid to people with a hangover I don't see that as unethical. It's not my deal but it's a long way from that to say that a non-harmful therapy provided for a fee is unethical. Complications of IV placement? Give me a break. You come to the ED nowadays with anything other than a clear MSK complaint and the nurses put an IV in in the triage booth. IVF as a non-benign intervention. Again, give me a break. How many people have been pushed into acute heart failure on the hangover bus? Who cares if it's evidenced-based or if people who go to the hangover clinic meet your personal standard for dehydration? You are not involved in this transaction and not being harmed by it.

In a real sense there is almost certainly a lurker (or maybe a poster) reading this who has screwed a fellow doc over on compensation, been a terrible citizen of a group pushing work onto partners because of laziness, or done plaintiff work where they gave shady testimony for $750/hr who is shaking their head at the absurdity of the OP suggestion.

[Panscan]

Anything that doesn't have 0 risk is non benign. Walking grandma down the hall is not benign. But the benefits likely outweigh the risks. Putting an iv in for a pointless treatment when they could chug two bottles of Gatorade for the same effect is risk (albeit a small one) for basically 0 gain.

I'm not sure I have to be involved in a transaction or harmed by it to say its a bad idea. Thats a strange standard and makes no sense.

This stuff is basically everything allopathic medicine stands against. The entire point of the field.

[Panscan]

Where is the end? Are we going to start giving people transfusions to top them up? Mark my words that will be a thing in next 10 years I bet.

[Panscan]

You're also blatantly encouraging alcoholism as that is vast majority of people who are going to be utilizing this. Let's not be delusional and say the typical client is going to be a marathoner or die hard crossfitter.

[EntrepreneurMD]

Ha Ha!

There are doctors here that politicize doing ultrasounds and x-rays in your office - they should be sent to the hospitals (where they work) for 10x the cost. You ever see the bill for an x-ray or ultrasound performed at a hospital?

This is not the place to ask about IV fluids. You'll get the usual answer "a needle is not benign" or "there are no studies". Show me the studies that show the medical benefits for facelifts and implants. These are the guys that believe only in physical benefit, not emotional benefit. Probably anti-cosmetic dermatology to the bone with no room for differing opinions. Hence WCI does not want people to impose political views here.

That being said, I am aware of these mobile IV clinics and do not feel they are worthwhile. I do believe in IV hydration in urgent care settings to avoid hospitalization in truly dehydrated low risk patients and have given a bag or two myself, but this is not the business you speak of. I am here to give an opinion that factors in my business views and demand for the service, not here to impose any political views.

[IntensiveCareBear]

Panscan wrote:

You’re also blatantly encouraging alcoholism as that is vast majority of people who are going to be utilizing this. Let’s not be delusional and say the typical client is going to be a marathoner or die hard crossfitter.

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Maybe you will eventually have your eyes opened to the fact that, as a doc, your job is not to be world culture and lifestyle police. Your wake up call might be that you hit your head on a doorway riding such a high horse? You are a fixer, through and through. If we didn't deal with the uneducated, poorly nourished, gluttonous obese, narcotic and alcohol users, people who don't understand birth control and prenatal care, the violent, the vain and self indulgent ppl, the neurotic and ashamed, etc... well, you'd barely have any patients at all. The biggest consumers of health care are those who lead unhealthy lifestyle... and healthy/rich people who become convinced via marketing (incl docs themselves) that they need or want to be excess health care consumers. If we didn't do a boat load of unnecessary procedures and tests on people, especially people with good insurance, then the attorneys and hospital/office owners will replace us with docs who will. They will still replace you if you don't do those things at a reasonable rate and order enough testing and imaging. You are a fixer... and a revenue generator, through and through.

Encourage alcoholism by giving IVF? Lmao. That is like saying that orthos who fix ACL encourage obesity and dangerous sport... or that dermatologists who sell RetinA and Botox in office encourage vanity causing suicide and anxiety and lust. Writing up a fictional book of Boseph Fifth fables banning tea and smoking and casual sex and then thumping it to the world isn't the way to go if your aim is to improve public health. People are going to do what they are going to do in a free country. If you want to make a difference, all you can do is lead by example. Write books in your spare time if you wish to make people aware and amazed enough to want to take care of their body. They have free will.

If you want to teach or preach or police or politic full time, those are just not the jobs of a doctor, man. You should drop out now. Next week, with or without your blessing, many docs will be selling unnecessary vitamins, shooting fillers or doing nosejobs for teens, boarding a cath for a patient who should be in hospice ("one last try" if the family questions it), taking unnecessary xrays or MRI for simple sprains a MS1 knows isn't fractured or ruptured, putting people on adipex when they need diet education, doing ultrasound guided injects for slam dunk knee steroids on skinny people, giving 45 year olds false hope of child conception and more tests to do, scheduling total knee surgery for someone who barely walks to begin with, and scheduling follow-ups in 2 weeks for perfectly healthy people due to some nonsense reasoning (probably results discuss on needless labs or biopsy of that mole that has been the same size for 55 years now) just because they have BCBS. Money makes people, docs fully included, do things they don't necessarily want to do (my main reasoning OP should not do this IVF venture with anything more than consult fee and minimal time... he seems to have no passion for the idea besides $). Ethics are not an issue here, though. If IVF takes off, every hospital and hospital or private UC clinic will soon be offering it also - many already do. We do tons of stuff that is not morally righteous since it is fairly harmless and wholly lucrative... and people are treated much different based on insurance. Welcome to the red pill doctor view. Facts of life Enjoy the weekend

[Brains428]

Brunch promotes alcoholism as much as an IV fluid clinic does....

Too much red tape for me, but I'd rather this place be ran by an ICU doctor than someone with less training.

[ddswifey]

This took a turn for negative when "IV for drunks" was brought up and clearly the OP said the purpose was  "for wellness" in his original post.  There's no moral issue here....

Dear OP--- most of us aren't judging you for bringing this idea up but wanted to give our honest opinions about if we think its a good idea for you to invest in. I myself use services like this sometimes so I see no problem with it. Actually mostly high level athletes use the place I go to....but I just gave my experience that I rarely see people at my place actually getting the IVs---they use other services more often.

I would stay away from the mobile idea for the sheer fact that you will personally have to sit there and "visit" with the patient for an entire hour in their home.   no thanks (says the introvert).

 

[gasdoc86]

What gauge needles are you going to use? I’d recommend at least 18g, preferably 16 or even 14g. You could dump in 1L in 10 minutes or less and maximize the number of customers.

If it were me, I’d stick a 9 Fr Cordis in everyone’s right IJ, hook them up to a Belmont rapid infuser device, squirt in toradol 30mg and zofran 8mg and let ‘er rip. If we’re going to hydrate people, let’s give them their money’s worth.

[fatlittlepig]

I’ll order outpatient iv fluids for the patient with metastatic breast cancer with intractable nausea, vomiting in between cycles of chemo or the patient with inflammatory bowel disease who is dehydrated in order to avoid admission, but what is described in the post is not befitting of a physician.

[Zaphod]

Panscan wrote:

Anything that doesn’t have 0 risk is non benign. Walking grandma down the hall is not benign. But the benefits likely outweigh the risks. Putting an iv in for a pointless treatment when they could chug two bottles of Gatorade for the same effect is risk (albeit a small one) for basically 0 gain.

I’m not sure I have to be involved in a transaction or harmed by it to say its a bad idea. Thats a strange standard and makes no sense.

This stuff is basically everything allopathic medicine stands against. The entire point of the field.

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This is dumb. Nothing is truly benign, life kills you in the end. These would be adults, consented, etc....Are nail salons benign? Tanning beds? The list goes on and on, and though doctors tend to have personal field blindness in these things, all specialities have vanity procedures or things that make zero difference yet are done every day. Just start paying attention.

I think calling it "wellness" or any other such huckster/snake oil word isnt great. But if you're just out there selling fluid for dehydration/hangover kits, whats the big deal. People here give antibiotics and opioids to pts to stop the whining from pts, this is much less of an egregious thing. Many docs own restaraunts and sell alcohol, would think nothing of a gas station with cigarettes/tobacco/lottery, etc...people put pools in their yards and have kids at the same time, own guns, etc...Many medications available otc now, etc..

In regards to the amount of risk a tiny bit of standard questions this is a bit of a ridiculous hill to die on. IV fluids in healthy adults doesnt carry a reasonable risk that should bother a doctor. Many everyday things that are far riskier that no one cares about. Would I do it? No, not worth it, but its certainly not evil. Though of course there are sleazy types that wade into it.

[Panscan]

Antibiotics and opiates to stop whining is also inappropriate. I never said it's evil. Just its inappropriate.