Anyone change their mind about FIRE?

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  • burritos
    FP/UC
    • Apr 2018
    • 3697

    #31
    I like the people I work with. They are nice and are very deferential towards me. I don't get that outside the office, nor do I really want it. I feel like I'm still contributing as is everyone here on this board is. When I'm vacations I usually am happy to come home(though not my wife). My days off are filled with hobbies that bring me joy, but I don't want to be doing them 24/7.

    Comment

    • Tangler
      Member
      • Aug 2018
      • 5549

      #32
      FI = Freedom
      freedom to do whatever you want.
      i won’t eject
      Instead i plan on gliding down slowly
      I am already slowly eliminating the bs that adds no value and increasing my time doing valuable activities.
      Exercise, reading, time outside, kayak fishing, cooking, increased.
      Weekends, nights, commuting to work in traffic = decreased.
      At work: treating patients like i want to be treated and teaching more; stressing less about silly stuff
      Also minimizing time in bs meetings and with the “office people” who like to make rules and send emails but don’t do a lot of meaningful clinical work.
      In 4 years I turn 50 and i might stop completely but who knows. I provide good care, and do it on my terms.
      I like having control.

      Comment

      • IntensiveCareBear
        Banned
        • Dec 2018
        • 243

        #33




        For me, my job doubles as a social life, so while not close to financial independence myself, l don’t have current plans to stop cold turkey when i do get there. If i didn’t genuinely enjoy hanging out with my co workers, i might feel different....
        Click to expand...


        This sort of thing makes me very sad to hear. You are highly leveraged socially... and leveraged in a bad place.

        Those co-workers are there to make money. It is an artificial social situation. That doesn't mean you can't make the most of it, but it is not real. It is one dimensional, temporary (job contracts) and transactional (paychecks) by nature, and centered around an activity... much like a school, military, vacation tour bus, jail, public invite sports league, etc... a group which you largely didn't pick. The "activity" at any employment is making money, though... that is what makes it so poor of a place to drop your social anchor (and horrible to drop sex/dating one). Mainly, the workplace is conditional: if the nurses' or admins' or most other docs' or anyone's paychecks bounced or they got a substantially better offer elsewhere, they would be gone asap. If you retire, they won't follow you... they are chained to the paychecks. That is NOT a real social situation. There is no way to pretend it is. When the front desk girls joke, "see you Monday... unless I win the lottery," they are not joking.

        The co-worker people aren't even their real self/personality on the job since they have to protect their income; they do that by being as fake as their Facebook when at the hospital ("I'm always like this"). As a doc, you are in a high rank position in the artificial social situation since you are a bit of a rainmaker, and while that illusionary prestige can be fun and feel good (yet stakes are higher for docs than a nurse assist or low rank at co-worker parties), you have to always realize status is wholly artificial and people often just treat you will to raise/preserve their own status there in the workplace. Many of them would want little to do with you at the gym or club or mall. If you are doing real life activities with co-workers (regular sports, vaca, party, etc), then that is cool, but they are still in that workplace, and perhaps metro area, conditionally. It is a largely utilitarian friendship (you coexist to make money... just like you were in MS with buddies to study for 4yrs and all leave to your own paths afterwards).

        From 7 habits:

        "If your center is WORK...

        PLEASURE: Waste of time. Interferes with work.


        FRIENDS: Developed from work setting or shared interest. Basically unnecessary.


        ENEMIES: Obstacles to work productivity.


        CHURCH: Important to corporate image. Imposition on your time. Opportunity to network in profession.


        SELF: Defined by job role.


        PRINCIPLES: Ideas that make you successful in your work. Need to adapt to work conditions."


        ...If you found out the world was ending in 30 days, would you still go to work for even one more day? If you have to think about that or would want to go there to say goodbye, you have massive problems of little/no real friendships/hobbies with putting nearly all your eggs (happiness, financial, social, ego validation, self-worth, humor, mission, etc) into that one workplace basket. It is not the end of the world to be the work-centered for finite timespans; many residents are from necessity, but that is a very temporary situation... it should NOT be the case as an attending.


        Any co-workers friendship is clearly the first of Plato's three types of friendship: utility, pleasure, and good (true) friendship. It is like the attending you had in residency or the dude you sat in the stands with at games one year your kid played soccer or the guy from the dog park you'd meet to BS with there while the dogs played most weeks. It was a temporary alliance to reach a mutual goal; that is all. Very few turn into the true friendships where you enjoy various interests and regularly just talking with no context/interest in particular.

        ...OP, you solved your problem in the original post: "...Perhaps my fault for not developing enough outside interests..."

        If you collect books to read, sports/games to master, social skills to make/keep friends easily, or any other goals to seek, you will never be bored. The introvert/extrovert and leader/follower stuff is nonsense; it is simply learned and practiced behavior that takes courage to do but builds confidence once you do it repeatedly. Your happiness is your own responsibility. Boring people get bored. You honestly could put me anywhere on Earth (providing at least a few of the people speak English), and I'd have a girl or two and some pleasure/utility type guy friends (sport/party/etc buddies) by the end of the month... some might turn into good friends over time, and I'd be doing hobbies or trying to make new friends when I had down time. The only "problem" with retirement or time off is not enough hours in the day and choosing who/where to hang out since you can't do everything. There are no real problems, besides health problems. GL

        Comment

        • childay
          Physician
          • Jan 2016
          • 3689

          #34
          Formerly nice thread

          Comment

          • HikingDO
            Physician
            • Mar 2017
            • 1255

            #35
            Yea, ICB has a special gift of turning a nice thread into a not so nice one. Not sure if he believes the garbage he writes or just does it for effect. Either way, I just skip over his posts and move onto the next.

            Comment

            • uteomfs
              Member
              • May 2019
              • 53

              #36





              That makes me kind of sad for you. Are you sure “crushed” is the right word? No hope? Maybe your situation is not as dire as it seems right now…
              Click to expand...


              Please dont feel sad for me. I love my work, and contrary to what ICB and his book report indicate, I truly do have good friends and great relationships at my office. The reason I backed off of FIRE is I don't believe I would do well in early retirement. As a physician, well, a glorified dentist, I have a great opportunity to contribute charitably through finances as well as time and expertise. If I retire early I may not be able to do so. Save your tears for ICB.

              Comment

              • jfoxcpacfp
                Moderator
                • Jan 2016
                • 15811

                #37








                That makes me kind of sad for you. Are you sure “crushed” is the right word? No hope? Maybe your situation is not as dire as it seems right now…
                Click to expand…


                Please dont feel sad for me. I love my work, and contrary to what ICB and his book report indicate, I truly do have good friends and great relationships at my office. The reason I backed off of FIRE is I don’t believe I would do well in early retirement. As a physician, well, a glorified dentist, I have a great opportunity to contribute charitably through finances as well as time and expertise. If I retire early I may not be able to do so. Save your tears for ICB.
                Click to expand...


                I am so glad you posted that! All the best on your journey to FI and hope you become a regular!
                My passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors 270-247-6087 to schedule CPA and Financial Planning initial introductions for Fox CPA and Wrenne Financial Planning, my affiliate firm. We charge Flat Fees for both CPA & Fee-Only Financial Planning.

                Comment

                • CM
                  Member
                  • Jan 2017
                  • 2094

                  #38


                  Humans need purpose, they need a “thing”. It’s OK if your “thing” is work, or kids, or golf, or volunteering, or running a blog or greeting at Home Depot. I just think it’s important to have a thing. We don’t think it’ll be hard for us to have or find a thing. We aren’t retire to the lazyboy type of people, and there are a few start ups I could imagine starting, and PhD’s to get in retirement, college courses to teach, and trips to take, and a few Scandanavian counties in which to live, and I could probably get excited to help coach a soccer team or something.
                  Click to expand...


                  +1

                  You won't be bored or depressed or purposeless in retirement unless your identity is wrapped up in your title/position. You'll do all sorts of things that you didn't have the time or energy to do while working.

                  I "retired" at 41 with no plan. I got in great shape, spent quality time with my significant other (no longer exhausted and irritable), visited family, played fetch with my dog, and relaxed in the hot tub. My workplace was the local bookstore where I went every day to read accounting and finance texts because I was fascinated by investing.

                  I wrote a professional investor with some suggestions after reading one of his published articles, and he invited me to interview for a job as a healthcare equity analyst. I then moved to a new city, started a new career, and earned the CFA designation. I didn't plan or expect anything like that when I left medicine. Opportunities present themselves when you have time and energy and you pursue your interests.

                  I left the job to earn an MBA at the Booth School of Business, and that was another great experience. After graduation I moved to my hometown to spend time with Mom and Dad while I still had the chance to do that. I opened an RIA which was not as much fun as expected, but that was OK too.

                  Everyone's "thing" will be different, and it might well be something you haven't even considered yet.
                  Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

                  Comment

                  • FIREshrink
                    Member
                    • Jan 2017
                    • 3264

                    #39
                    CM, that all sounds interesting but it also sounds like work.

                    Comment

                    • EntrepreneurMD
                      Banned
                      • Jun 2019
                      • 1346

                      #40
                      You don't need to be financially independent or retire early to be a dreamer. Your career should be a vehicle for your passion, not an obstacle thereof. Do what you love, love what you do.

                      Those of us who are mid-career know the clock seems to be ticking faster, as those who are in retirement. Are you living or merely existing? Retirement is not a magic pill. If you're not one to seize the day today, you likely won't do it then either. Reinvent yourself if you must, but do it today. Don't rely on FI and/or RE.

                      Power in truth.

                      Comment

                      • CM
                        Member
                        • Jan 2017
                        • 2094

                        #41




                        CM, that all sounds interesting but it also sounds like work.
                        Click to expand...


                        It was just fun.
                        Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

                        Comment

                        • Kamban
                          Moderator
                          • Aug 2016
                          • 7453

                          #42


                          Yea, ICB has a special gift of turning a nice thread into a not so nice one. Not sure if he believes the garbage he writes or just does it for effect. Either way, I just skip over his posts and move onto the next.
                          Click to expand...


                          One good thing for me is that my mental ability has worsened to the point that if I cannot see the beginning and end of the post on a single monitor screen I just skip it ( unless it is from one of the posters here I like and admire).

                          SO I have no clue if ICB's posts are funny or nice or helpful or mean or snarky or just pouring cold water. I just scroll on to the next post.

                          Comment

                          • hightower
                            Member
                            • Dec 2016
                            • 1666

                            #43
                            Like others have said, my goal is FI, not necessarily the RE portion.  I want to get to FI so I can do something other than medicine if I so desire. I don't like my career, but I can tolerate it knowing that if I stick to it long enough, I'll buy myself and my family freedom from the rat race.  I have a long way to go however so the idea of retiring early seems like a pipe dream right now.

                            Comment

                            • hightower
                              Member
                              • Dec 2016
                              • 1666

                              #44




                              You don’t need to be financially independent or retire early to be a dreamer. Your career should be a vehicle for your passion, not an obstacle thereof. Do what you love, love what you do.

                              Those of us who are mid-career know the clock seems to be ticking faster, as those who are in retirement. Are you living or merely existing? Retirement is not a magic pill. If you’re not one to seize the day today, you likely won’t do it then either. Reinvent yourself if you must, but do it today. Don’t rely on FI and/or RE.

                              Power in truth.
                              Click to expand...


                              I agree with this sentiment, but I also recognize that it's often easier said then done, especially for doctors and especially the older we get.  If I wanted to reinvent myself right now, I would quit medicine completely and try to find something I enjoy doing (I have lots of interests I'd look into).  Most likely, however, I wouldn't be able to find anything that paid even remotely close to what I'm making now.  Even though we live below our means, we'd still have to make drastic changes to our lives in order for me to be able to afford to do something like that.  So, if I were going to be a "dreamer" and quit my job, I better have a really good reason for it and I better be certain that the new thing would be wonderful, because otherwise I could be putting myself and my family through unnecessary hardship just to follow a dream.  I guess it's a personality thing, but I'd rather keep trying to reach FI first and follow my interests as hobbies on my days off for now.  Who knows, maybe one of those interests could turn into something bigger with time, but for now, I need to pay the bills and save

                              Comment

                              • EntrepreneurMD
                                Banned
                                • Jun 2019
                                • 1346

                                #45
                                Hightower, when I say dreamer, I am not referring to hobbies. I'm talking about exploiting your natural talents. In doing so, it is the driving force for many successful small businesses that do better than just being a doctor for the sake of income, and big business too. Steve Jobs comes to mind here. You may be able to incorporate your interests in your conversation with patients, so you can say "I enjoy medicine". Success will grow and paying the bills will be easier. One oncologist I read about sold his multi-billion dollar genetic treatment company to a big biotech - he was a dreamer, didn't find medicine mundane but excited about the prospects. Fortunately for me, that's the camp I'm in as it relates to patient care. Optimism about the future is a character trait of successful and satisfied people.

                                Vocation: a strong feeling of suitability for a particular career or occupation.

                                Job: a paid position of regular employment.

                                I choose to have a vocation, not a job.

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