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  • I’m pretty cheap (I made my fiancée put back a can of name brand beans in favor of store brand to save $0.50), but have been a fan of the car/company/vision so I bought a model 3 awd that should be coming soon. I’ll report an update in the tesla car thread a month after owning it to see if it was worth it to a frugal person. 
    Click to expand…


    If you just paid $80K for a car, your membership to the cheap and frugal club has been officially revoked. Not to fret, you can be part of the spending intentionally and loving it club.
    Click to expand…


    awd model 3 was about $46k after tax incentive. if I were to buy a new Toyota or Subaru with a V6/H6 engine, that runs about $32k.

    I still maintain my frugal club membership by trying to get my hospital to install chargers so I don’t have to pay to charge the car heh
    Click to expand...


    No way. You bought a lower quality car all around for a lot more money. Thats just not in any way frugal. Its signaling, which costs money.

    Comment








    • burritos wrote:
      Click to expand…





      Click to expand…

      I have a feeling when my 13 y/o gets his license, he’ll get my accord, i’ll get my wife’s leaf, and she’ll get a tesla 3…


      Click to expand…


      Those are interesting priorities. Others might think that women are a compliment to a man’s life, not the focus of it. Purpose, mission, health, relationships, etc would be the focus. Crazy talk, I know.

       
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      I don't understand. I shouldn't get a car for my kid come license time? I don't want him to be dependent on uber and the public transportation in suburbia isn't great.

      Comment















      • For those shorting the stock, is it all valuation? Jealousy of elon and the cars aren’t part of the decision making? If I weren’t so cheap, I’d consider buying the stock and the car. But I I am. So that is either protecting me or holding me back.
        Click to expand…


        I’m pretty cheap (I made my fiancée put back a can of name brand beans in favor of store brand to save $0.50), but have been a fan of the car/company/vision so I bought a model 3 awd that should be coming soon. I’ll report an update in the tesla car thread a month after owning it to see if it was worth it to a frugal person.
        Click to expand…


        I have a feeling when my 13 y/o gets his license, he’ll get my accord, i’ll get my wife’s leaf, and she’ll get a tesla 3. Adding more solar capacity this month and a 2nd ev line for that possibility. But who knows, according to a lot of smart money, tsla will be gone by then.
        Click to expand…


        Valuation is just a “how much meat is on this bone” quesition and for tesla the answer is, oh oh so much. Its never a good reason on its own to short something. Its been the case for years that its valuation was ridiculous. Something had to change first. Clearly tesla and elon have had control of the narrative and I’ve noted that before, until that changes you can just light your money on fire. When that changes (like recently) all the sudden the valuation and other issues that have been present for literally years start to matter to people that matter (banks, financiers, lien holders) then the environment it better to short but its never friendly.

        Its really the price of the stock is such a mismatch to reality and a typical car company. People can say whatever they want about “software” etc…but in the end, they still make cars and making cars is a crappy business that costs a ton of money.

        Jealousy/etc…-shorting or doing anything should be about making money. Jealousy, etc…are things that will cause you to make terrible decisions and is more likely to lose you money. For the majority of people on the opposite side of the tesla trade is purely math and very obvious. It costs x amount of dollars to make x amount of cars, tesla has $y and is valued upon z^5 production. These things are separated by a galactic amount of difference. It hasnt mattered because there were enough people willing to let you destroy their money in that pursuit. As that goes away, well reality floods in.

        If tesla can raise another 5 billion for working capital, etc…that would absolutely change the outlook.
        Click to expand...


        Not that Amazon is the same as tesla, but it took years before Amazon made money.

        Maybe Tesla will be bought out by:

        https://www.investopedia.com/will-tesla-be-taken-over-by-ford-apple-or-toyota-4688794?utm_campaign=quote-yahoo&utm_source=yahoo&utm_medium=referral&yptr=yahoo

        If apple sneezed, it could by tesla with what came out of its nose.

        Comment









        • I’m pretty cheap (I made my fiancée put back a can of name brand beans in favor of store brand to save $0.50), but have been a fan of the car/company/vision so I bought a model 3 awd that should be coming soon. I’ll report an update in the tesla car thread a month after owning it to see if it was worth it to a frugal person.
          Click to expand…


          If you just paid $80K for a car, your membership in the cheap and frugal club has been officially revoked. Not to fret, you can be part of the spending intentionally and loving it club.
          Click to expand...


          Hyperbole -  Tesla 3 AWD - $40k; can top out at 70k fully loaded.   This isn't a BMW M4 that's being bought or a Rolex watch or many other nice shiny things.

          Comment













          • I’m pretty cheap (I made my fiancée put back a can of name brand beans in favor of store brand to save $0.50), but have been a fan of the car/company/vision so I bought a model 3 awd that should be coming soon. I’ll report an update in the tesla car thread a month after owning it to see if it was worth it to a frugal person. 
            Click to expand…


            If you just paid $80K for a car, your membership to the cheap and frugal club has been officially revoked. Not to fret, you can be part of the spending intentionally and loving it club.
            Click to expand…


            awd model 3 was about $46k after tax incentive. if I were to buy a new Toyota or Subaru with a V6/H6 engine, that runs about $32k.

            I still maintain my frugal club membership by trying to get my hospital to install chargers so I don’t have to pay to charge the car heh
            Click to expand…


            No way. You bought a lower quality car all around for a lot more money. Thats just not in any way frugal. Its signaling, which costs money.
            Click to expand...


            Very happy with the quality and value I'm getting out the Tesla 3.   It way outperforms prior cars we had:   Audi A3, Volvo V40; Infiniti G37.   The first two were in the shop several times over the first 3 years we had them on lease.   At least the G37 didn't have the engine light constantly coming on, but the sunroof failed earlier this year costing $1700 in repairs.

            Tesla?  27,000 miles in first year -- 1 set of tires (yes, we like sports cars) and a lot of fun.

            Comment


















            • For those shorting the stock, is it all valuation? Jealousy of elon and the cars aren’t part of the decision making? If I weren’t so cheap, I’d consider buying the stock and the car. But I I am. So that is either protecting me or holding me back.
              Click to expand…


              I’m pretty cheap (I made my fiancée put back a can of name brand beans in favor of store brand to save $0.50), but have been a fan of the car/company/vision so I bought a model 3 awd that should be coming soon. I’ll report an update in the tesla car thread a month after owning it to see if it was worth it to a frugal person.
              Click to expand…


              I have a feeling when my 13 y/o gets his license, he’ll get my accord, i’ll get my wife’s leaf, and she’ll get a tesla 3. Adding more solar capacity this month and a 2nd ev line for that possibility. But who knows, according to a lot of smart money, tsla will be gone by then.
              Click to expand…


              Valuation is just a “how much meat is on this bone” quesition and for tesla the answer is, oh oh so much. Its never a good reason on its own to short something. Its been the case for years that its valuation was ridiculous. Something had to change first. Clearly tesla and elon have had control of the narrative and I’ve noted that before, until that changes you can just light your money on fire. When that changes (like recently) all the sudden the valuation and other issues that have been present for literally years start to matter to people that matter (banks, financiers, lien holders) then the environment it better to short but its never friendly.

              Its really the price of the stock is such a mismatch to reality and a typical car company. People can say whatever they want about “software” etc…but in the end, they still make cars and making cars is a crappy business that costs a ton of money.

              Jealousy/etc…-shorting or doing anything should be about making money. Jealousy, etc…are things that will cause you to make terrible decisions and is more likely to lose you money. For the majority of people on the opposite side of the tesla trade is purely math and very obvious. It costs x amount of dollars to make x amount of cars, tesla has $y and is valued upon z^5 production. These things are separated by a galactic amount of difference. It hasnt mattered because there were enough people willing to let you destroy their money in that pursuit. As that goes away, well reality floods in.

              If tesla can raise another 5 billion for working capital, etc…that would absolutely change the outlook.
              Click to expand…


              Not that Amazon is the same as tesla, but it took years before Amazon made money.

               
              Click to expand...


              This isnt true and I linked graphs in one of these tesla threads a few days ago. Amazon has almost always been FCF positive and funded growth with revenues. Tesla has never been FCF positive and funds growth with investor money. Entirely different.

              I dont think anyone wants the debt, accounts payable nor legal liabilities, to say nothing of dealing with the musk problem. Cheaper to pick up in liquidation. Theres value there, its just at a number much lower, but stranger things have happened.

              Comment
















              • I’m pretty cheap (I made my fiancée put back a can of name brand beans in favor of store brand to save $0.50), but have been a fan of the car/company/vision so I bought a model 3 awd that should be coming soon. I’ll report an update in the tesla car thread a month after owning it to see if it was worth it to a frugal person. 
                Click to expand…


                If you just paid $80K for a car, your membership to the cheap and frugal club has been officially revoked. Not to fret, you can be part of the spending intentionally and loving it club.
                Click to expand…


                awd model 3 was about $46k after tax incentive. if I were to buy a new Toyota or Subaru with a V6/H6 engine, that runs about $32k.

                I still maintain my frugal club membership by trying to get my hospital to install chargers so I don’t have to pay to charge the car heh
                Click to expand…


                No way. You bought a lower quality car all around for a lot more money. Thats just not in any way frugal. Its signaling, which costs money.
                Click to expand…


                Very happy with the quality and value I’m getting out the Tesla 3.   It way outperforms prior cars we had:   Audi A3, Volvo V40; Infiniti G37.   The first two were in the shop several times over the first 3 years we had them on lease.   At least the G37 didn’t have the engine light constantly coming on, but the sunroof failed earlier this year costing $1700 in repairs.

                Tesla?  27,000 miles in first year — 1 set of tires (yes, we like sports cars) and a lot of fun.
                Click to expand...


                These are anecdotal cases ofc. Reliability, etc...of model 3 per aggregate sources is terrible, theres just no denying that. Outside of being fast, its paltry in appointments and you get more in a corolla or civic for less money. Its a fun car, not a value car. Theres nothing wrong with that and Im totally fine with it, but its just not that category.

                Comment


                • I wouldn't equate Spartan with not nice interior.   I find my 3 as good as my G37 interior appointments.  Dashcam/Sentry recording included and great interiors.    Not a pocket rocket like my old Sentra SE-R or muscle car like Mustang.  You lost the buy-in by trying to compare a 3 to a civic/corolla and shows the bias there where rest of industry doesn't agree on that.   Just go ahead and compare a Yugo and Mercedes next.

                   

                  Comment


                  • I agree that AMZN as a company didn't have the same issues as TSLA.  The financials were similar in the core growth.  The primary difference --  TSLA had no business in going off roading with Solar City and then doubling down by taking it in -- that's the albatross.

                    That's why I invested in AMZN in the past and never did with TSLA.   Both CEOs are megalomaniacs, but the financial decisions at TSLA were much more suspect unfortunately.

                    Comment






                    • I wouldn’t equate Spartan with not nice interior.   I find my 3 as good as my G37 interior appointments.  Dashcam/Sentry recording included and great interiors.    Not a pocket rocket like my old Sentra SE-R or muscle car like Mustang.  You lost the buy-in by trying to compare a 3 to a civic/corolla and shows the bias there where rest of industry doesn’t agree on that.   Just go ahead and compare a Yugo and Mercedes next.

                       
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                      You get better reliability, range, and a bunch of standard options. Those cars can be really nice, for half the cost. You wont get some very specific things of course.

                      The 3 is different in very distinct ways, techy things and performance, which will appeal to a certain type of person. Its not a straight across or apples to apples. But people on here are equating them to a value/base type model, and while it may be for tesla, its not for everything else.

                      Different strokes for different folks. I dont like the interiors at all, but thats obviously personal preference. Even the S I had felt cheap and lacking, but I drive a lexus which is super comfy in all the ways tesla skimps. I think you get far more for far less in a civic/corrola, but thats not why people buy a 3, though they like to act as if its a similar level of purchase.

                      I know the industry equates the M3 with the BMW 3 and such, but I (obviously my own opinion which no one cares about, let alone the industry) just dont feel thats remotely apt. It reminds me more of a lotus or some other fast fun car thats stripped down in the daily driving department. I dont think anyone has to agree with me, these are personal preferences. I just learned there was a truck that has massage seat options, while way out of my price range, thats far more where my heads at when I think of luxury.

                      I certainly dont equate my opinions with what others think, I for sure know I like and care about specific things and not at all others that is distinctly different than many or even most people. Obviously people love the S and the 3, they just dont pass muster for the price for me, at that price I expect a lot they dont have. I dont care about the speed/acceleration, thats fun but pointless and frankly dangerous on the everyday drive, I'd much rather heated/ventilated seats with massage all day. I dont think many people agree with me on that.

                      For further proof of my strangeness, I also very much did not like the dodge viper srt, super uncomfortable and definitely not a daily driver. It was very fun and exciting though for what it was made for, and maybe since I was driving it hard in that manner I got a bad impression of its everyday comfort level, but I couldnt imagine driving that everyday either. Im weird.

                      Comment


                      • @Zaphod - not weird -- you're definitely a Toyota/Lexus leaning person.   I prefer the Japanese ride over the stiffer European rides hence our Infiniti G37 is a great match for us over the Audi or Volvo we had in the past.  Lexus is a bit too much Dino ride.  Even the IS was a little too soft for what it was supposed to give, so landed on the G37.    We think the Tesla 3 balances it out nicely between performance without sacrificing ride comfort and will do nicely to steal from the Camry Hybrid/Prius crowd as well as continue dominating the performance sports sedan segment.   Last year it was -- just wait for the new BMW 3 series to blow out the Tesla 3.  Nope.  BMW went from 19% market share on the 3series to 9% in 4th qter 2018 to 5.9% in 1st qtr in California per CNCDA report --- so the Tesla has broad market appeal.   Let's see if it's sustainable.

                         

                        Comment


                        • The question about why they didn't raise cash in 2018, when everyone knows funding is their Achiles heel.

                          The main plausible rumours:

                          1. They didn't want the dilution (which seems crazy if this were the real reason)

                          2. They couldn't as the extra scrutiny from further cap raise from the SEC would bring to light some nasty secret that would prevent cap raising. With all the ex-staff, one would think if this rumour was true, it would have been confirmed somewhere.

                          Still, what is evident is that they haven't raised enough capital since 2018 for whatever reason. Nor did they sell a stake to the Saudi's or anyone. So for whatever reason, they seem constrained from raising nearly sufficient capital, in the last year anyway.

                          If EM announces a successful 5B capital raising tomorrow, that would put them back in the game for sure and at least get Panasonic off their back.

                          But the game theory/strategy aspect of it is, why would he leave it until now, if he could have done it earlier ? If he can't do it now, why would he be able to do it even later ?

                          It will be fascinating to see how it pans out.

                           

                          Comment






                          • The question about why they didn’t raise cash in 2018, when everyone knows funding is their Achiles heel.

                            The main plausible rumours:

                            1. They didn’t want the dilution (which seems crazy if this were the real reason)

                            2. They couldn’t as the extra scrutiny from further cap raise from the SEC would bring to light some nasty secret that would prevent cap raising. With all the ex-staff, one would think if this rumour was true, it would have been confirmed somewhere.

                            Still, what is evident is that they haven’t raised enough capital since 2018 for whatever reason. Nor did they sell a stake to the Saudi’s or anyone. So for whatever reason, they seem constrained from raising nearly sufficient capital, in the last year anyway.

                            If EM announces a successful 5B capital raising tomorrow, that would put them back in the game for sure and at least get Panasonic off their back.

                            But the game theory/strategy aspect of it is, why would he leave it until now, if he could have done it earlier ? If he can’t do it now, why would he be able to do it even later ?

                            It will be fascinating to see how it pans out.

                             
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                            so many execs have jumped ship from the company and they are now under $200/share - once they hit 100 they become a takeover target.  but who - tech?  auto?  Bezos???
                            It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy, I'll get a saw.

                            Comment






                            • The question about why they didn’t raise cash in 2018, when everyone knows funding is their Achiles heel.
                              Click to expand...


                              Simple answer and probably a large contributor -- hubris.

                              Comment


                              • Meanwhile, SpaceX is looking great.

                                I have been following (and bemused by) both Tesla threads on the Forum, but SPACE is where I want to throw my dice.

                                Comment

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