Tesla, the investment

[Panscan]

Exactly; not a failed company, sky is falling.

The shorting folk probably finally making some dollars back after getting trounched years before -- whats left of them.

Truly as a stock -- TSLA has been all over the place with its valuations. Agree that this current is more in-line; It was like Palm was to 3M back in the dotcom era previously.

Still not even close to an appropriate valuation. At 50-70 sure

[StarTrekDoc]

Still not even close to an appropriate valuation. At 50-70 sure

Okay- whatever your crystal ball says. - far from a failed company -- which would really be a stock value of zero -- not 50-70.

[xraygoggles]

Exactly; not a failed company, sky is falling.

The shorting folk probably finally making some dollars back after getting trounched years before -- whats left of them.

Truly as a stock -- TSLA has been all over the place with its valuations. Agree that this current is more in-line; It was like Palm was to 3M back in the dotcom era previously.

I don't think it's more in line rn - prolly has to get to where it was pre-1st gamma squeeze - around 60 or so.

[Tim]

Okay- whatever your crystal ball says. - far from a failed company -- which would really be a stock value of zero -- not 50-70.

Valuation multiples are determined by the market.
ICE car manufacturers aren’t really sexy.
Batteries that go into ICE vehicles and flashlights and boomboxes aren’t sexy.
Low perceived growth in PROFIT means lower multiple. The only thing Musk need is control. He would and is extremely smart. Take money out at higher valuations as long as “safe investment” returns exceed the losses in the multiple.

Multiples will come down for any growth company. EV’s are growing up, multiples will continue to go down. The question is how much and when.

[Panscan]

Okay- whatever your crystal ball says. - far from a failed company -- which would really be a stock value of zero -- not 50-70.

It has to go to 50-70 before it can go to 0

[StarTrekDoc]

It has to go to 50-70 before it can go to 0

Tim - Tesla appears to have incredible profit margins per vehicle that laps its competition several fold over. And total net profits on two factories nearly equals Toyota.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/te...0many,profit%2 0per%20vehicle%20of%20%241%2C200.

My guess will sacrifice per vehicle profit to grab more market share and the two new factories ramp up.

Panscan - Settling at 50 as your own prediction still isn't a failed company.

[Panscan]

Tim - Tesla appears to have incredible profit margins per vehicle that laps its competition several fold over. And total net profits on two factories nearly equals Toyota.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/te...0many,profit%2 0per%20vehicle%20of%20%241%2C200.

My guess will sacrifice per vehicle profit to grab more market share and the two new factories ramp up.

Panscan - Settling at 50 as your own prediction still isn't a failed company.

I think the company is going to zero, ie cease to exist. I think a trip to 50-70 in short term is likely.

[Tim]

Tim - Tesla appears to have incredible profit margins per vehicle that laps its competition several fold over. And total net profits on two factories nearly equals Toyota.

https://www.carscoops.com/2022/11/te...0many,profit%2 0per%20vehicle%20of%20%241%2C200.

My guess will sacrifice per vehicle profit to grab more market share and the two new factories ramp up.

Panscan - Settling at 50 as your own prediction still isn't a failed company.

The total net profit do not matter near as much as the profit as a per cent of revenues. That guides the multiples. Profits earned and undistributed do not drive multiples.
Sacrificing per vehicle profit is a price elasticity decision.
Future profit growth, but you know that.
In your opinion, you think there is a long ways to go. You have that right.

[Kamban]

I think the company is going to zero, ie cease to exist. I think a trip to 50-70 in short term is likely.

When do you think that is likely to happen? Or are you like the Bitcoin soothsayer saying that it will happen some time in the future, but refuse to commit to a time frame.

[StarTrekDoc]

You know Amazon lost more % and market cap this year and negative earnings this quarter.....let's put that along the list of a failed company too.

[CordMcNally]

Tesla would probably be better off if Musk passes the reigns to somebody else but I’m not sure he’ll do it.

[Tim]

Tesla would probably be better off if Musk passes the reigns to somebody else but I’m not sure he’ll do it.

Define better please:
Corp strategy
Business plan
Performance
Product roadmap

I don’t believe Musk any conduct violations that warrant removal.
Define “passing the reigns”:
Do you really think that the “Musk Effect” can be removed from Tesla by anything other than a complete “buy out” and releasing “Tesla Files” showing he is a bad person?

Haven’t followed Tesla management development, it does seem that Elon has and is developing bench strength and has delegated authority and responsibility. THAT and a leader the troops will follow.

Beyond my pay grade to find a succession plan.
Might start with defining exactly what improvements you think need to be made.

Loose cannon? Yes. Musk made EVs sexy and tangible.
Any volunteers for CEO of Twitter? Musk is looking for one.

[Panscan]

You know Amazon lost more % and market cap this year and negative earnings this quarter.....let's put that along the list of a failed company too.

well as a retailer ya, without AWS Amazon is basically nothing.

[CordMcNally]

Define better please:
Corp strategy
Business plan
Performance
Product roadmap

I don’t believe Musk any conduct violations that warrant removal.
Define “passing the reigns”:
Do you really think that the “Musk Effect” can be removed from Tesla by anything other than a complete “buy out” and releasing “Tesla Files” showing he is a bad person?

Haven’t followed Tesla management development, it does seem that Elon has and is developing bench strength and has delegated authority and responsibility. THAT and a leader the troops will follow.

Beyond my pay grade to find a succession plan.
Might start with defining exactly what improvements you think need to be made.

Loose cannon? Yes. Musk made EVs sexy and tangible.
Any volunteers for CEO of Twitter? Musk is looking for one.

Better in every way. By give up the reigns I mean put other people in charge and completely step away and become a silent owner. This isn’t anything personal on him. He’s a dreamer and creator but he’s not a business man. He needs to move on to his next creation.

[Kamban]

Tesla would probably be better off if Musk passes the reigns to somebody else but I’m not sure he’ll do it.

My problem with that is that the CEO will be a bean counter and Tesla will become a staid old company with not much great innovations. Look at Apple. Steve Jobs was the dreamer who made things happen. People lined outside the stores for the next new product or great additions to existing product. Now all Cook does is to make incremental improvements to keep profits going. It has become another me-too company.

I wish Elon would just tweet less and not get into the weeds and get into fights with pigs. His vision is what keeps the company fresh. The Tesla semi will have issues but it is just version 1, like the Roadster and Model S had. But by Version 6 or 7 issues would be ironed out and it will be a winner. The diesel semis are due for a major revolution.