I think Dave Ramsey is confused about Backdoor Roth

[notadoc]

"But perhaps most telling is the kind of gossip that Ramsey says is the worst. “The gossip about the person who’s freakin’ paying you!” As the president of The Lampo Group, the only thing Dave Ramsey hates more than gossip is seemingly when the gossip is about Dave Ramsey."

https://www.thedailybeast.com/spies-cash-and-fear-inside-christian-money-guru-dave-ramseys-social-media-witch-hunt

[MPMD]

q-school wrote:

MPMD wrote:I would be really curious to know what it’s like to work at his company. He seems like a good boss and does nice things for his people but I’m guessing the culture is sort of cultish, openly evangelical, and I would imagine at some point very early in your employment you learn rule #1 is that Dave is always right.

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I would think the boss boss is always right.  even for physicians.

especially for physicians who tend to think they are always right.

 

 

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I think his case is a little different. You don't got to work for a doc based on the premise that the doc has all the answers.* You don't have accept a personal set of controversial beliefs.

 

 

 

* unless you work for a Neurosurgeon. I kid, I kid....

[Donnie]

I don’t think many of the posters in this thread have worked in corporate America, but eccentric, tyrannical behavior is common in very successful businesses headed by founders. This type of behavior is so common that it may be necessary to have in order to both start a business and drive it to high levels of success. You’ll see this type of thing make its way into the public domain whenever the founder reaches a certain level of fame making the gossip tabloid fodder. Look no further than Amazon and Apple. I assure you it happens at smaller companies too.

[MPMD]

Donnie wrote:

I don’t think many of the posters in this thread have worked in corporate America, but eccentric, tyrannical behavior is common in very successful businesses headed by founders. This type of behavior is so common that it may be necessary to have in order to both start a business and drive it to high levels of success. You’ll see this type of thing make its way into the public domain whenever the founder reaches a certain level of fame making the gossip tabloid fodder. Look no further than Amazon and Apple. I assure you it happens at smaller companies too.

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I would be interested on data about this or an article if you are reacting to something you read?

 

[Donnie]

Just my own personal experience. In my line of work, I meet a large number of founders of private equity managers and private companies. The successful ones are ruthless and the business is deeply personal to them. They tend have an odd mix of complete confidence in themselves combined with deep insecurity, which manifests itself in tyrannical behavior.

[Zaphod]

Donnie wrote:

Just my own personal experience. In my line of work, I meet a large number of founders of private equity managers and private companies. The successful ones are ruthless and the business is deeply personal to them. They tend have an odd mix of complete confidence in themselves combined with deep insecurity, which manifests itself in tyrannical behavior.

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This describes our owner perfectly. It is common I agree. Its hard to be successful at a startup/business without either a great barrier to entry, or a good level of sociopathic qualities. There are few mega successful people/CEOs out there that arent absolute ruthless, shrewd and make cold calculated impersonal decisions. Even great athletes like Jordan, Armstrong. Being someone with a prickly personality works in these areas. Most of us are too nice to do whats necessary nor have this wild uncontained self belief/doubt thing. Something I first noted as a competitor and athlete, the best guys are just awful people for such a high percentage of cases it was hard to not notice.

Before anyone suggests Buffett/Gates since it was BRK weekend, they are both fitting exactly, theyve just learned how to be outwardly signaling in order to again, increase benefits to themselves.

[Zaphod]

MPMD wrote:

Donnie wrote:

I don’t think many of the posters in this thread have worked in corporate America, but eccentric, tyrannical behavior is common in very successful businesses headed by founders. This type of behavior is so common that it may be necessary to have in order to both start a business and drive it to high levels of success. You’ll see this type of thing make its way into the public domain whenever the founder reaches a certain level of fame making the gossip tabloid fodder. Look no further than Amazon and Apple. I assure you it happens at smaller companies too.

Click to expand…

I would be interested on data about this or an article if you are reacting to something you read?

 

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I think Jeremy Ronsons book on sociopaths discusses this at some length, but I just watched the ted talk so dont know how much so.

[Nate]

I just listened to the episode today, and went googling to find out if anyone else had caught it. I think he misunderstood the caller, and gave bad advice when saying "what you do in one year doesn't affect the other years". I'm no tax pro, but the articles I've read all indicate that before-tax IRAs are lumped into one when calculating tax on a pro-rata basis when converting to a Roth, so your best bet is to keep money out of pre-tax IRAs (by rolling them into a 401k for example). I love Dave's advice to callers and his baby steps system, I think both are excellent, but this one answer was definitely wrong. I think he's allowed to make mistakes once in awhile, I'd like to see a correction somewhere though. I'm hoping in the next few podcasts he'll cover it, but he doesn't spend most of his time on tax law--so I don't expect it.