Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

The argument for paying fees

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #31



    Sorry, but you didn’t work a “real” financial planner or he would have done “real” financial planning.It’s an important distinction. He might have been a “real” licensed CFP, but he never learned what financial planning was all about or he was too lazy or disinterested to engage. Most CFPs don’t do financial planning, it just takes too much time, knowledge and experience. They hide behind software and their licenses.
    Click to expand...


    Beware the "No true Scotsman fallacy"

    Comment


    • #32




      No pretty much everyone now a days is on the internet.  Even grandma does facebook.  Its actually amazing to see the amount people have done for themselves just from youtube videos alone.  So yes pretty much everyone can search this out.  its not a complicated search.

       

      Obviously you dont read some of those posts at bogleheads.  Some show just how little knowledge they have initially and how easily they can come so far.  One of the things i like at bogleheads is the flat out welcome and reassurance about it isnt hard, take your time, ask questions.

       

      You dont actually need any significant knowledge.  It doesnt take tons of time.  It isnt complicated.  It isnt rocket science.  If you can youtube how to fix your toilet or whatever then it isnt a far step.  If you cant then guess what you dont actually have the money to invest or pay fees.

       

      Im more of an Orc than a troll and even Orcs can do it.
      Click to expand...


      Sometimes I wonder if you talk to real people in real life with real financial issues. Seriously, go hang out in the doctor's lounge, try to talk a few of them into managing their own finances well for a few minutes. Then check back with them in a year and see where they are at. Let us know your percentage of successfully getting someone to manage their own portfolio in any sort of reasonable manner. In my experience doing this with dozens, perhaps hundreds of people, I think I run about 20%.
      Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

      Comment


      • #33






        Sorry, but you didn’t work a “real” financial planner or he would have done “real” financial planning.It’s an important distinction. He might have been a “real” licensed CFP, but he never learned what financial planning was all about or he was too lazy or disinterested to engage. Most CFPs don’t do financial planning, it just takes too much time, knowledge and experience. They hide behind software and their licenses.
        Click to expand…


        Beware the “No true Scotsman fallacy”
        Click to expand...


        I had never heard of that - thanks for the education!
        Working to protect good doctors from bad advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

        Comment


        • #34




          Sometimes I wonder if you talk to real people in real life with real financial issues. Seriously, go hang out in the doctor’s lounge, try to talk a few of them into managing their own finances well for a few minutes. Then check back with them in a year and see where they are at. Let us know your percentage of successfully getting someone to manage their own portfolio in any sort of reasonable manner. In my experience doing this with dozens, perhaps hundreds of people, I think I run about 20%.
          Click to expand...


          My experiences exactly. I teach my residents (and hound them semi regularly...) and only a few are doing anything about it. I am the only attg in my dept maxing out the 403b and the only one that participates in the 457b and backdoor Roth IRA...

          Comment


          • #35







            Sometimes I wonder if you talk to real people in real life with real financial issues. Seriously, go hang out in the doctor’s lounge, try to talk a few of them into managing their own finances well for a few minutes. Then check back with them in a year and see where they are at. Let us know your percentage of successfully getting someone to manage their own portfolio in any sort of reasonable manner. In my experience doing this with dozens, perhaps hundreds of people, I think I run about 20%.
            Click to expand…


            My experiences exactly. I teach my residents (and hound them semi regularly…) and only a few are doing anything about it. I am the only attg in my dept maxing out the 403b and the only one that participates in the 457b and backdoor Roth IRA…
            Click to expand...


            it's a poor teacher who blames all the students.  

            maybe you are overloading them with too much information?  or for your colleagues, maybe they have other priorities.  or maybe people don't change that easily.  or maybe their happiness is optimized already and financial independence isn't important to them.

             

            it's actually fascinating to me.  i have residents and medical students.  in many, many years of practice i have talked to maybe five about finances.  and that's because they asked.  i tend to focus on the medical stuff, which they certainly don't know enough about.  hopefully some of that stuff is sticking.  

            Comment


            • #36










              Sometimes I wonder if you talk to real people in real life with real financial issues. Seriously, go hang out in the doctor’s lounge, try to talk a few of them into managing their own finances well for a few minutes. Then check back with them in a year and see where they are at. Let us know your percentage of successfully getting someone to manage their own portfolio in any sort of reasonable manner. In my experience doing this with dozens, perhaps hundreds of people, I think I run about 20%.
              Click to expand…


              My experiences exactly. I teach my residents (and hound them semi regularly…) and only a few are doing anything about it. I am the only attg in my dept maxing out the 403b and the only one that participates in the 457b and backdoor Roth IRA…
              Click to expand…


              it’s a poor teacher who blames all the students.   ????

              maybe you are overloading them with too much information?  or for your colleagues, maybe they have other priorities.  or maybe people don’t change that easily.  or maybe their happiness is optimized already and financial independence isn’t important to them.
              Click to expand...


              I'm not blaming, it's not easy to get the word out. I give a once a year lecture to residents. I hound my women residents more since getting DI and LI in order early is more important since most plan to have kids.

              And not everyone is motivated to take finances in their own hands. Show me a doc that can retire well on barely maxing just  403B... (These are young docs and def not FI)

              Comment


              • #37




                Residents don’t make enough but you shouldn’t discount what you are doing.  I trained at U of M.  The previous PD there used to teach about coding, finances, insurance (I’m sure you know who this is).  People sort of snickered at the lectures as though they weren’t that useful and that’s putting it kindly.  I cant tell you how many times other grads have told me later on that they have gone back to those lectures and how important they were.  Many made some initial mistakes.  I personally got stuck in a disasterous WL situation.  Some day previous residents will also thank you.  Ive also trained residents and I can tell you that any non medically related mentoring takes more time to appreciate.  Medically they can use immediately and they under value the rest.
                Click to expand...


                Oh I don't expect miracles from one lecture.

                A few residents now have Roth IRAs ;-) and many of my female residents got some of the last unisex DI policies from principal earlier this year. Two of my residents are on track for FIRE for sure (I am seriously in awe of these 2 - but they were like this before me but it's fun to chat w them about their plans)

                No idea who that PD is...

                Comment


                • #38
                  maybe i read too much into the word hound.  i'm not their mother, and i don't feel like hounding is my responsibility.  ymmv obviously.

                  as for coding, that seems to me at least related to the practice of medicine and more naturally a topic for discussion during training.  i still subscribe to the overall philosophy that teaching occurs in steps, and so coding for me is less important than clinical teaching.

                  i surmise msbonnie deals with her trainees more frequently and regularly and for a longer duration than i do.

                  if i saw them regularly i probably would teach them about coding eventually.  but i feel that personal finances are none of my business.   i would disagree slightly with msbonnie and say that if someone maxed out 403b for their whole career, they would likely be fine.  they certainly wouldn't retire early if they wanted a luxurious retirement, and the retirement wouldn't be exactly what they hoped perhaps, but there would be enough in there between ss and retirement funds for a reasonable retirement.  probably better than 90% of america.  maybe higher.

                  half the residents here drive range rovers and bmw and tesla.  i'm assuming they have family money and probably have advisors who can give better information than i could.  another fraction is from international schools and have no debt and are super young.  they will be fine if they choose to save any reasonable amount.

                  half the attendings have bentleys and porsche and couple ferraris.  so the residents are in good company.  

                  i remember my first attending job when someone stuck a note on my windshield of my beater that i was parked in the doctors lot.   good times.

                   

                   

                   

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    I work w them everyday, have 1-2 in my clinics and on rounds.

                    Comment


                    • #40


                      My experiences exactly. I teach my residents (and hound them semi regularly…) and only a few are doing anything about it. I am the only attg in my dept maxing out the 403b and the only one that participates in the 457b and backdoor Roth IRA…
                      Click to expand...


                      They may not pay close attention to advice now, but may still benefit.

                      I had no financial education as a resident, but I'm not sure that it would have mattered. I had other priorities then.

                      During my first year as an attending I attacked my student loans and devoured investing books, starting with three by Peter Lynch. I would have remembered at least some of my financial education as a resident if only someone had provided any. That would have helped.
                      Erstwhile Dance Theatre of Dayton performer cum bellhop. Carried (many) bags for a lovely and gracious 59 yo Cyd Charisse. (RIP) Hosted epic company parties after Friday night rehearsals.

                      Comment


                      • #41







                        Sometimes I wonder if you talk to real people in real life with real financial issues. Seriously, go hang out in the doctor’s lounge, try to talk a few of them into managing their own finances well for a few minutes. Then check back with them in a year and see where they are at. Let us know your percentage of successfully getting someone to manage their own portfolio in any sort of reasonable manner. In my experience doing this with dozens, perhaps hundreds of people, I think I run about 20%.
                        Click to expand…


                        My experiences exactly. I teach my residents (and hound them semi regularly…) and only a few are doing anything about it. I am the only attg in my dept maxing out the 403b and the only one that participates in the 457b and backdoor Roth IRA…
                        Click to expand...


                        Of a partnership of >150 docs, the last time I looked only about 6 were maxing out a $30K cash balance plan. I'm confident that I am personally responsible for doubling that number over about 5 years. Success? Sure. But indicative of the size of the problem.
                        Helping those who wear the white coat get a fair shake on Wall Street since 2011

                        Comment


                        • #42










                          Sometimes I wonder if you talk to real people in real life with real financial issues. Seriously, go hang out in the doctor’s lounge, try to talk a few of them into managing their own finances well for a few minutes. Then check back with them in a year and see where they are at. Let us know your percentage of successfully getting someone to manage their own portfolio in any sort of reasonable manner. In my experience doing this with dozens, perhaps hundreds of people, I think I run about 20%.
                          Click to expand…


                          My experiences exactly. I teach my residents (and hound them semi regularly…) and only a few are doing anything about it. I am the only attg in my dept maxing out the 403b and the only one that participates in the 457b and backdoor Roth IRA…
                          Click to expand…


                          Of a partnership of >150 docs, the last time I looked only about 6 were maxing out a $30K cash balance plan. I’m confident that I am personally responsible for doubling that number over about 5 years. Success? Sure. But indicative of the size of the problem.
                          Click to expand...


                          do you think the nonparticipating docs don't understand the value of the plan, it is not currently a priority (but maybe someday), or they think they have better investment or spending options?  or other?

                           

                           

                          Comment


                          • #43


                            Of a partnership of >150 docs, the last time I looked only about 6 were maxing out a $30K cash balance plan. I’m confident that I am personally responsible for doubling that number over about 5 years. Success? Sure. But indicative of the size of the problem.
                            Click to expand...


                            Clearly the docs who post here are financially educated and likely to have enough retire on.  More likely to have estate tax issues and Rmd concerns.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              This is great as I am learning how much financial education physicians receive (or don't) while in training.  I was talking to one my physician clients the other day and was shocked when he said he had a total of 2 hours of finance education in medical school, and it was focused more on running his practice than personal stuff.  Sounds like his case was not the outlier.

                              Comment


                              • #45




                                maybe i read too much into the word hound.  i’m not their mother, and i don’t feel like hounding is my responsibility.  ymmv obviously.

                                as for coding, that seems to me at least related to the practice of medicine and more naturally a topic for discussion during training.  i still subscribe to the overall philosophy that teaching occurs in steps, and so coding for me is less important than clinical teaching.

                                i surmise msbonnie deals with her trainees more frequently and regularly and for a longer duration than i do.

                                if i saw them regularly i probably would teach them about coding eventually.  but i feel that personal finances are none of my business.   i would disagree slightly with msbonnie and say that if someone maxed out 403b for their whole career, they would likely be fine.  they certainly wouldn’t retire early if they wanted a luxurious retirement, and the retirement wouldn’t be exactly what they hoped perhaps, but there would be enough in there between ss and retirement funds for a reasonable retirement.  probably better than 90% of america.  maybe higher.

                                half the residents here drive range rovers and bmw and tesla.  i’m assuming they have family money and probably have advisors who can give better information than i could.  another fraction is from international schools and have no debt and are super young.  they will be fine if they choose to save any reasonable amount.

                                half the attendings have bentleys and porsche and couple ferraris.  so the residents are in good company.

                                i remember my first attending job when someone stuck a note on my windshield of my beater that i was parked in the doctors lot.   good times.

                                 

                                 

                                 
                                Click to expand...


                                The comment about everyone having BMW's may or may not be true, though not all pay their car notes.  In late 2015, I purchased a repossessed 2012 328I BMW with 18K miles on it.  It was repossessed from a Physician in Texas.  I had searched high and low for several months for a BMW with one particular feature; a manual transmission (not that x-drive junk).

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X