Netflix, zoom, docusign, not doing so well.

[xraygoggles]

Alibaba is very strong, and China is pretty strong right now... not dumping money/supplies into Russia-Ukraine like USA and NATO are, not getting increased oil/gas prices... China is simply on the sidelines and producing. That said, I agree there is no way to know if BABA, VWO, etc will cont to be punished in terms of market prices despite good production and potential. Their recent prices continue to be pitifully low compared to their proven P/E ratios, and that's the clear investor risk there, esp for the stocks US markets can give warnings and sanction and fines and delist simply because they choose to.

This sounds like massive copium tbh. Haven't you been bagholding BABA for years now?

They have done over 2x the returns of broad market VTI and similar... and they will continue to.

Maybe, maybe not.

Gold is the undisputed, undefeated money in history. Productive business, stocks, RE, etc are also obviously wise.

While gold may be the currency with the longest track record, it's not an investment. Don't confuse the two.

Has it even appreciated with historic inflation rates?

[Max Power]

[bitcoin] not subject to the problem of printing and dilution which is why fiats all die

Oh really? How many times has it forked?

And I could've swore humans wrote (and could alter) the program for its creation. Ever wonder why they call it "mining" and picture BTC as gold coins?

...now just because something is flawed or stupid or even worthless or created of thin air doesn't mean ppl can't make a LOT of money from it by convincing others of its legit value or growth potential... but you can also bet that the BTC creators and early adopters made much more than anyone else ever will. That has happened many times in history. I digress though, whole long crypto thread for that that I don't participate in.

...While gold may be the currency with the longest track record, it's not an investment. Don't confuse the two.

Has it even appreciated with historic inflation rates?

Yeah, that is what it does: paces inflation. Not day-to-day, but over long timespans. I agree it's not an investment (in long spans, although a better park of cash in times like these than cash IMO)... it is simply a very stable store of wealth for any span.

A piece of gold will buy today roughly what it did thousands of years ago (in comparable products due to tech/society changes)... the 1oz gold coin getting Roman toga+belt+sandals vs today's business suit+tie+shoes+etc is a common example. Eg, if 25oz of gold bought a very strong fast horse and saddle 400 years ago (or basic coach and yolk of avg horses) and will buy an average new Toyota Corolla car today, then it'll buy an average new BladeRunner 2065 hover car or whatever the standard vehicle is when you retire also.

That is the whole beauty of gold: indestructible, can't be made in a lab, supply increases very slowly, recognized worldwide, can't be copied/forked/printed. Gold is something that's very unexciting and also pretty wise. There is a reason USA and every single central bank and country holds literal tons of gold (if they can based on trade and GDP), and that reasoning is not just that they spend billions and trillions on some old tradition to have shiny piles in vault.

[Turf Doc]

What's your asset allocation Max Power ?

[Max Power]

What's your asset allocation Max Power ?

I posted it in the Russia thread real time when it was changing a bunch. It has not changed much lately aside from Google growing and selling stuff to do that. Right now, approx 45%stock/30index/25cash+gold:

20% SPY and a bit of VOO and 401 usa index
5% VWO and 401 emerging index
5% BX and BRKB or similar companies (I count as indexes since they are broad)
15% GOOG
3% NVO
18% other various single stocks (sold some of this for more Goog but approximate)
5% DBC commod
5% stock in RE partnerships and various startups (basically all local opportunities, a few accredited invest stuff national/world)
10% Gold (approx half real, half ETFs)
15% Cash

[jacoavlu]

Oh really? How many times has it forked?

And I could've swore humans wrote (and could alter) the program for its creation.

forks (altering the code in way which is incompatible with the existing rules) create something other than bitcoin. bcash, bsv, etc. doesn't change bitcoin.

That is the whole beauty of gold: indestructible, can't be made in a lab, supply increases very slowly, recognized worldwide, can't be copied/forked/printed. Gold is something that's very unexciting and also pretty wise. There is a reason USA and every single central bank and country holds literal tons of gold (if they can based on trade and GDP), and that reasoning is not just that they spend billions and trillions on some old tradition to have shiny piles in vault.

problem with gold is it leads to centralization and then you have to place a lot of trust in third parties. and its not practical for use as medium of exchange

bitcoin satisfies those very features of gold that you tout - indestructible, can't be made in a lab, supply increases very slowly, recognized worldwide, can't be copied/forked/printed - and in many ways is better money bc of its digital nature.

[xraygoggles]

Oh really? How many times has it forked?

And I could've swore humans wrote (and could alter) the program for its creation. Ever wonder why they call it "mining" and picture BTC as gold coins?

...now just because something is flawed or stupid or even worthless or created of thin air doesn't mean ppl can't make a LOT of money from it by convincing others of its legit value or growth potential... but you can also bet that the BTC creators and early adopters made much more than anyone else ever will. That has happened many times in history. I digress though, whole long crypto thread for that that I don't participate in.

Yeah, that is what it does: paces inflation. Not day-to-day, but over long timespans. I agree it's not an investment (in long spans, although a better park of cash in times like these than cash IMO)... it is simply a very stable store of wealth for any span.

A piece of gold will buy today roughly what it did thousands of years ago (in comparable products due to tech/society changes)... the 1oz gold coin getting Roman toga+belt+sandals vs today's business suit+tie+shoes+etc is a common example. Eg, if 25oz of gold bought a very strong fast horse and saddle 400 years ago (or basic coach and yolk of avg horses) and will buy an average new Toyota Corolla car today, then it'll buy an average new BladeRunner 2065 hover car or whatever the standard vehicle is when you retire also.

That is the whole beauty of gold: indestructible, can't be made in a lab, supply increases very slowly, recognized worldwide, can't be copied/forked/printed. Gold is something that's very unexciting and also pretty wise. There is a reason USA and every single central bank and country holds literal tons of gold (if they can based on trade and GDP), and that reasoning is not just that they spend billions and trillions on some old tradition to have shiny piles in vault.

I'm not a gold hater - I think it's fine to own it (either physically as bars/bullion, or jewelry - which is how a lot of countries even today, especially in Asia, transfer wealth between generations - or ETFs). But I wouldn't hold more than 5-10% max in a portfolio, since it's essentially just 'dead weight' and useful in times of inflation (over long periods).

As for bitcoin: I don't think you have a solid foundation of knowledge about its intrinsic properties - since you've said some egregiously inaccurate things about it in the post above. Since you obviously like gold and appreciate its value in a portfolio, I would advise actually learning more about BTC. It is a wholly separate entity from the rest of the cryptocurrency space, and its cachet as a decentralized immutable deflationary currency is inexorable & not up for debate.

[Max Power]

...bitcoin satisfies those very features of gold that you tout - indestructible, can't be made in a lab...

It can be wiped out by losing your password, hack... or just have its value diminish as people lose interest.

And it was created in a computer lab, remember? If it can't be made, where did it and all crypto come from? Neptune?

...I would advise actually learning more about BTC. It is a wholly separate entity from the rest of the cryptocurrency space, and its cachet as a decentralized immutable deflationary currency is inexorable & not up for debate.

"Intrinsic properties" are not for something man-made. That is another term they took from gold... just like mining, "store of value," making all cryptos illustrated as silver and gold coins, "the new gold," etc etc. Every upstart tries to coattail from established success.

"Inexorable"? You do realize Bitcoin was invented (by humans) only 12 years ago and has been traded for less than a decade, right?
When I was a kid, DippinDots was "the ice cream of the future" and KMart was dominant. When my dad was a kid, Tucker was the new car maker that might take over and Woolworth was about as huge as Walmart is today. Check the progress on those. Things change, gold doesn't.

...Yes, gold is good in the 5-10% or lower AA range... possibly more or much more % if you have won the game and want trade upside for stability. I usually do around 5% of AA in physical gold personally... right now closer to 10% since the gold ETFs and selling options on them does good in a down market. Besides, there are just not a lot of good buys right now (shorts or buy low were ok a month ago, but pretty dicey now). Gold has thwacked the S&P this last year and esp YTD. The gold ETFs are sub-optimal long term due to drag, though... much like indexes vs single stocks.

I hope your BTC buys what my gold does in your retirement

[xraygoggles]

It can be wiped out by losing your password, hack... or just have its value diminish as people lose interest.

And it was created in a computer lab, remember? If it can't be made, where did it and all crypto come from? Neptune?

"Intrinsic properties" are not for something man-made. That is another term they took from gold... just like mining, "store of value," making all cryptos illustrated as silver and gold coins, "the new gold," etc etc. Every upstart tries to coattail from established success.

"Inexorable"? You do realize Bitcoin was invented (by humans) only 12 years ago and has been traded for less than a decade, right?
When I was a kid, DippinDots was "the ice cream of the future" and KMart was dominant. When my dad was a kid, Tucker was the new car maker that might take over and Woolworth was about as huge as Walmart is today. Check the progress on those. Things change, gold doesn't.

...Yes, gold is good in the 5-10% or lower AA range... possibly more or much more % if you have won the game and want trade upside for stability. I usually do around 5% of AA in physical gold personally... right now closer to 10% since the gold ETFs and selling options on them does good in a down market. Besides, there are just not a lot of good buys right now (shorts or buy low were ok a month ago, but pretty dicey now). Gold has thwacked the S&P this last year and esp YTD. The gold ETFs are sub-optimal long term due to drag, though... much like indexes vs single stocks.

I hope your BTC buys what my gold does in your retirement

If you like gold, there's really no good reason (aside from the novelty of BTC - only been around for 13 years) why you wouldn't also like bitcoin. Every quality & characteristic that makes gold a solid currency/medium of exchange can be applied to bitcoin - & in a better way, no less.

Do your own research, & due diligence.