Ukraine War... How much will S&P drop this week?

[AR]

Let’s not forget saudis have done far worse in Yemen yet no outrage in mainstream media

I don't know about "far worse" but I'd say it's all in the same atrocity ball park, and for much longer. So I more or less agree. I think that's not really a reason not to go into Ukraine. It's an argument to do something about Yemen. US decisions related to Yemen have been a travesty. I get that we cannot go to every single country and right every single injustice. We have to draw a line somewhere. Yemen is over the line for me. I'm sure not everyone here agrees.

The Yemen situation is not nearly as globally destabilizing as Ukraine, so US has less self-interest when it comes to Yemen. I think that drives a lot of why they're handled differently. I'm not saying that it's right, but it is the reality of the situation.

Also, most of what I've learned about Yemen is from mainstream media. It's not front page news these days, and it rarely has been save for a few incidents. I don't know what qualifes as "outrage" to you, but it definitely has been covered, and not always flatteringly for the US. I could easily find you many WaPo articles on the Yemen situation.

[FIREshrink]

I don't know about "far worse" but I'd say it's all in the same atrocity ball park, and for much longer. So I more or less agree. I think that's not really a reason not to go into Ukraine. It's an argument to do something about Yemen. US decisions related to Yemen have been a travesty. I get that we cannot go to every single country and right every single injustice. We have to draw a line somewhere. Yemen is over the line for me. I'm sure not everyone here agrees.

The Yemen situation is not nearly as globally destabilizing as Ukraine, so US has less self-interest when it comes to Yemen. I think that drives a lot of why they're handled differently. I'm not saying that it's right, but it is the reality of the situation.

Also, most of what I've learned about Yemen is from mainstream media. It's not front page news these days, and it rarely has been save for a few incidents. I don't know what qualifes as "outrage" to you, but it definitely has been covered, and not always flatteringly for the US. I could easily find you many WaPo articles on the Yemen situation.

Biggest reason we are 'ok' with Yemen is Saudis are fighting our archenemies the Iranians. The collateral damage has been horrific.

[fatlittlepig]

Lol now you want another middle eastern war. I believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the limits of military intervention.

[bovie]

I don't know about "far worse" but I'd say it's all in the same atrocity ball park, and for much longer. So I more or less agree. I think that's not really a reason not to go into Ukraine. It's an argument to do something about Yemen. US decisions related to Yemen have been a travesty. I get that we cannot go to every single country and right every single injustice. We have to draw a line somewhere. Yemen is over the line for me. I'm sure not everyone here agrees.

You sure?

[Tim]

The elephant in the room is China. Not the country or heritage, CCP specifically.

[Lordosis]

Apparently now even Bush himself views the Iraq war as unjustified.

It was the “decision of one man to launch a wholly unjustified and brutal invasion of Iraq,” former President George W. Bush said Wednesday before quickly correcting himself, saying he meant to describe Russian President Vladimir Putin’s war on Ukraine.
“Iraq, too, anyway,” he added under his breath to laughter from the audience during a speech at his presidential center in Dallas.

I saw he joked about being 75...

[xraygoggles]

Biggest reason we are 'ok' with Yemen is Saudis are fighting our archenemies the Iranians. The collateral damage has been horrific.

By now, almost every single country in the ME has directly or indirectly been bombed by the US - pretty sure we have more than one archnemesis there.

[AR]

Lol now you want another middle eastern war. I believe you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the limits of military intervention.

There are a lot of non-war things that could have been done way better with Yemen. Like maybe not actively helping the Saudis. Is that too much for you?

[fatlittlepig]

We now know what I suspected regarding the 54 Billion in aid to Ukraine

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/upshot/ukraine-us-aid-size.html

Amazingly, it represents 1% of the Federal budget.
It is three times as much money as all of the EU countries combined.
Most of the spending is going to the military industrial complex.
I wonder how much will go to the average Ukranian and how many people will be enriching themselves.

When will this tranche of money dry up and when will be the next request for money? Since we funded the war, are we responsible for rebuilding the country? And have we decided what victory looks like - (?establishing pre-war Ukranian borders, ?weakening Russian, ?Putin stepping down) No one knows. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

[FIREshrink]

We now know what I suspected regarding the 54 Billion in aid to Ukraine

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/upshot/ukraine-us-aid-size.html

Amazingly, it represents 1% of the Federal budget.
It is three times as much money as all of the EU countries combined.
Most of the spending is going to the military industrial complex.
I wonder how much will go to the average Ukranian and how many people will be enriching themselves.

When will this tranche of money dry up and when will be the next request for money? Since we funded the war, are we responsible for rebuilding the country? And have we decided what victory looks like - (?establishing pre-war Ukranian borders, ?weakening Russian, ?Putin stepping down) No one knows. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

You probably also think the Marshall plan was a bad investment.

[AR]

We now know what I suspected regarding the 54 Billion in aid to Ukraine

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2022/05/20/upshot/ukraine-us-aid-size.html

Amazingly, it represents 1% of the Federal budget.
It is three times as much money as all of the EU countries combined.
Most of the spending is going to the military industrial complex.
I wonder how much will go to the average Ukranian and how many people will be enriching themselves.

When will this tranche of money dry up and when will be the next request for money? Since we funded the war, are we responsible for rebuilding the country? And have we decided what victory looks like - (?establishing pre-war Ukranian borders, ?weakening Russian, ?Putin stepping down) No one knows. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

I don't know that "no one knows". I suspect that powers that be at the Pentagon and State Dept have some clear objectives in mind. There is probably some value in not making every single detail public. I'm sorry they didn't think to share this info with you.

[fatlittlepig]

I don't know that "no one knows". I suspect that powers that be at the Pentagon and State Dept have some clear objectives in mind. There is probably some value in not making every single detail public. I'm sorry they didn't think to share this info with you.

LOL, they may want to share their objectives with Ukraine because today's WSJ headline is this:

Ukraine Will Fight Until All Russian Forces Are Expelled, Military Intelligence Chief Says
Kyiv must reclaim territory in Crimea and the east effectively seized by Russia in 2014, Maj. Gen. Budanov says

KYIV, Ukraine—Ukraine’s military intelligence chief said the country would keep fighting until it evicts Russian forces from all of its territory—including Crimea and other areas effectively seized by Moscow in 2014—and called for deliveries of longer-range heavy weapons and warplanes from the West to help.

“I don’t know any borders except the borders of 1991,” Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov said, referring to the year of Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union. “Who can force Ukraine to freeze the conflict? This is a war of all Ukrainians, and if someone in the world thinks that they can dictate to Ukraine the conditions under which it can or cannot defend itself, then they are seriously mistaken.”

Again, I guess we'll see how this plays out...

[FIREshrink]

LOL, they may want to share their objectives with Ukraine because today's WSJ headline is this:

Ukraine Will Fight Until All Russian Forces Are Expelled, Military Intelligence Chief Says
Kyiv must reclaim territory in Crimea and the east effectively seized by Russia in 2014, Maj. Gen. Budanov says

KYIV, Ukraine—Ukraine’s military intelligence chief said the country would keep fighting until it evicts Russian forces from all of its territory—including Crimea and other areas effectively seized by Moscow in 2014—and called for deliveries of longer-range heavy weapons and warplanes from the West to help.

“I don’t know any borders except the borders of 1991,” Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov said, referring to the year of Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union. “Who can force Ukraine to freeze the conflict? This is a war of all Ukrainians, and if someone in the world thinks that they can dictate to Ukraine the conditions under which it can or cannot defend itself, then they are seriously mistaken.”

Again, I guess we'll see how this plays out...

Why do you think the Ukrainians would demand anything other than full territorial integrity? That's their right under international law.

[AR]

LOL, they may want to share their objectives with Ukraine because today's WSJ headline is this:

Ukraine Will Fight Until All Russian Forces Are Expelled, Military Intelligence Chief Says
Kyiv must reclaim territory in Crimea and the east effectively seized by Russia in 2014, Maj. Gen. Budanov says

KYIV, Ukraine—Ukraine’s military intelligence chief said the country would keep fighting until it evicts Russian forces from all of its territory—including Crimea and other areas effectively seized by Moscow in 2014—and called for deliveries of longer-range heavy weapons and warplanes from the West to help.

“I don’t know any borders except the borders of 1991,” Maj. Gen. Kyrylo Budanov said, referring to the year of Ukraine’s independence from the Soviet Union. “Who can force Ukraine to freeze the conflict? This is a war of all Ukrainians, and if someone in the world thinks that they can dictate to Ukraine the conditions under which it can or cannot defend itself, then they are seriously mistaken.”

Again, I guess we'll see how this plays out...

Once again, I don't understand why you're putting so much stock in public statements like this. This is exactly the kind of morale-boosting, nationalistic stuff any leader says. Also there is great value in projecting strength and determination to ones enemies.

It also helps anchor any future negotiations with Russia. I mean if they're willing to give a little they certainly don't want to broadcast that fact now. If they start with the position of "we're not conceding anything" (which is a legitimate thing to demand), then it makes concessions they were perfectly willing to make seem like real concessions. Anyone with literally any experience negotiating should understand this.

The strategies the leaders discuss behind closed doors is likely to be very different from the stuff you read in the media. Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

[Turf Doc]

Also, most of what I've learned about Yemen is from mainstream media. It's not front page news these days, and it rarely has been save for a few incidents. I don't know what qualifes as "outrage" to you, but it definitely has been covered, and not always flatteringly for the US. I could easily find you many WaPo articles on the Yemen situation.

I think you know it when you see it. On the news with Ukraine its like putin is the next hitler and pure evil and must be stopped, but when do you ever hear anything about Yemen, much less with that kind of condemnation. I see tons of ukrainian flag profile pictures from people who probably dont even know anything is going on in yemen. its pretty incredible to see how the media can influence your average person