Ukraine War... How much will S&P drop this week?

[fatlittlepig]

From what I can tell, the US has been propping up NATO financially for some time. I don't know anything about this website but it has a nice graphic that I'll assume is accurate: NATO Defense Spending: How Much Does Each Country Contribute? (visualcapitalist.com)

The US accounts for 69% of all NATO defense spending in 2021. Why are we even in NATO if we're the ones providing a majority of the money?

The EU doesn't want to do anything. They can't even come to an agreement because several of their members are very reliant on Russian energy. NATO goes as the US goes.

https://youtu.be/Vpwkdmwui3k

[zlandar]

War should be painful and miserable. Makes it the option of last resort to settle differences between nations.

[fatlittlepig]

From what I can tell, the US has been propping up NATO financially for some time. I don't know anything about this website but it has a nice graphic that I'll assume is accurate: NATO Defense Spending: How Much Does Each Country Contribute? (visualcapitalist.com)

The US accounts for 69% of all NATO defense spending in 2021. Why are we even in NATO if we're the ones providing a majority of the money?

The EU doesn't want to do anything. They can't even come to an agreement because several of their members are very reliant on Russian energy. NATO goes as the US goes.

Basically whenever you hear about nato led this or that just substitute US for NATO.

[dataentryspecialist]

From what I can tell, the US has been propping up NATO financially for some time. I don't know anything about this website but it has a nice graphic that I'll assume is accurate: NATO Defense Spending: How Much Does Each Country Contribute? (visualcapitalist.com)

The US accounts for 69% of all NATO defense spending in 2021. Why are we even in NATO if we're the ones providing a majority of the money?

The EU doesn't want to do anything. They can't even come to an agreement because several of their members are very reliant on Russian energy. NATO goes as the US goes.

I’m really hopeful that this has opened Europe’s eyes to why NATO still needs to exist. One can see that Germany’s calculation that increasing interdependence between Russia and EU would make NATO somewhat obsolete was totally wrong.

Ultimately, the I hope the citizens of these countries themselves will decide to support policies of increased defense spending.

Totally agree with you about the funding issue. NATO membership should require a GDP proportionate contribution to mutual defense. I’m not sure how or why we ended up in the position of principal underwriter of European defense.

[CordMcNally]

I’m really hopeful that this has opened Europe’s eyes to why NATO still needs to exist. One can see that Germany’s calculation that increasing interdependence between Russia and EU would make NATO somewhat obsolete was totally wrong.

In Europe's eyes, NATO needs to exist because somebody else (the US) is footing the bill.

Ultimately, the I hope the citizens of these countries themselves will decide to support policies of increased defense spending.

They don't want to increase their spending or else they would have. They want free protection and who can blame them?

Totally agree with you about the funding issue. NATO membership should require a GDP proportionate contribution to mutual defense. I’m not sure how or why we ended up in the position of principal underwriter of European defense.

Unless something has changed, they're supposed to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. Is it really a requirement if no one enforces it?

[Hank]

We surrendered all of Eastern Europe to communism without a fight now giving even half of Ukraine to Russia is too much ?

Cool. You mind giving me half of your house?

The Russians are more than welcome to leave all of Ukraine today.

[zlandar]

In Europe's eyes, NATO needs to exist because somebody else (the US) is footing the bill.



They don't want to increase their spending or else they would have. They want free protection and who can blame them?



Unless something has changed, they're supposed to spend 2% of their GDP on defense. Is it really a requirement if no one enforces it?

Yes Europe as a whole is naive on the concept of defense. In the past it has taken a World War to get their heads out of the sand.

Now it only takes a special military operation. Baby steps.

[Jaqen Haghar MD]

We are trying to fight Russia to the last Ukrainian man
Europeans need to oppose this myopic and dangerous policy
peace in Europe ASAP
We surrendered all of Eastern Europe to communism without a fight now giving even half of Ukraine to Russia is too much ?
Russia needs to be tamed and defanged yes but not at the cost of every Ukrainian male

Those Ukrainian men are dead if Russia takes over. The women, so far, have not been as lucky. They know it. Europe is resisting this because they know of the horrors that come next. The last of those who lived through Nazi and Russian occupation are dying off, but they left a collective memory of their experiences in those societies. You can’t just run off and let somebody else fight.

It’s cheaper and easier to deal with it now, rather than 20 years from now. But Europe does need to pay its share. Without the US, there is no NATO, just a bunch of bickering states.

You can’t negotiate from a position of weakness with a tyrant who would happily kill your family, if they were a mild inconvenience. When the bullets start flying, you have to call for the sons of bitches to bail you out. You can’t painlessly talk your way out of certain situations.

[Tim]

The answer seems to be growing from the model developed from Iraq and Afghanistan. What could go wrong?

https://www.defensenews.com/pentagon/2022/05/17/pentagons-high-level-group-to-aid-ukraine-is-rooted-in-iraq-and-afghanistan-fight/

Does anyone have any doubt that the Taliban and al Qaeda won’t regenerate?
Anyone want to visit Somalia?

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/16/us/politics/biden-military-somalia.html

Might be a good move. Might not.

https://smallwarsjournal.com/jrnl/art/turns-out-afghanistans-fate-game-changer-part-ii

Make no mistake, the US is addicted to meddling and reaps unintended consequences.

We are getting played as suckers. Checkbook in hand but a steeper price.

[fatlittlepig]

I sleep well at night knowing that if the US got into trouble, nato article 5 dictates that Montenegro and Luxembourg will come to our defense.

[Panscan]

From what I can tell, the US has been propping up NATO financially for some time. I don't know anything about this website but it has a nice graphic that I'll assume is accurate: NATO Defense Spending: How Much Does Each Country Contribute? (visualcapitalist.com)

The US accounts for 69% of all NATO defense spending in 2021. Why are we even in NATO if we're the ones providing a majority of the money?

The EU doesn't want to do anything. They can't even come to an agreement because several of their members are very reliant on Russian energy. NATO goes as the US goes.

This is true for basically all of the global conglomerates security/health organizations. We shell out tons of money to be criticized by other nations when we are the only reason they are still sovereign to begin with. We would do well to withdraw from NATO, WHO and the UN. Complete and total jokes with no actual substance produced besides critique on the global stage.

[FIREshrink]

I sleep well at night knowing that if the US got into trouble, nato article 5 dictates that Montenegro and Luxembourg will come to our defense.

This is the small minded way of American isolationism which ultimately allowed global war - WWI and WWII - to get out of hand. Do you not understand the economic benefits the US derives from a Europe at peace? Was our society richer or poorer when the Berlin Wall stood and the Eastern Bloc was off limits to American industry? Was it good or bad to bring tens of millions of Europeans into NATO, the EU, and the western economic order?

it sounds like you would be happy to hunker down in ignorant isolation while handing over Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Romania, and the Baltics to Russia. Most sane observers understand why that would not be acceptable.

[fatlittlepig]

I refer you to post 591 of this thread.

[Panscan]

This is the small minded way of American isolationism which ultimately allowed global war - WWI and WWII - to get out of hand. Do you not understand the economic benefits the US derives from a Europe at peace? Was our society richer or poorer when the Berlin Wall stood and the Eastern Bloc was off limits to American industry? Was it good or bad to bring tens of millions of Europeans into NATO, the EU, and the western economic order?

it sounds like you would be happy to hunker down in ignorant isolation while handing over Ukraine, Moldova, Georgia, Romania, and the Baltics to Russia. Most sane observers understand why that would not be acceptable.

Its a balancing act. It doesn't have to be complete isolation or world police. We are far too active on the global stage.

You realize all the other countries in the world have militaries too, right? It's not our job to stop every psycho with a finger on the trigger in the world. The rest of the world has become weak and reliant on our peacekeeping, much to our detriment. Europe itself could handle and stop the Russian attack of Ukraine, but they have become lazy, helpless and dependent on Russian energy, so they won't do what is necessary and it's on our plate.

[AR]

I refer you to post 591 of this thread.

Yeah, that doesn't really prove your point. This one is quite a bit different from a lot of those things.

It's lazy and just plain wrong to lump them all together like this.

FIREshrink is right, imo.