Rivian, the investment

[Tim]

I'm guessing Ford probably saw it as a way to make some easy money. I thought I had read the Ford, Amazon, and another popular brand that I can't remember had ownership stake.

Actually, the funding of suppliers is common. It is a variation of "skin in the game". Shell Oil had a subsidiary completely devoted to this, Shell Capital. Provide capital to suppliers to serve the interest of the parent company. This was not a speculative investment. Ford picked the Mustang and F150 and outsourced the Lincoln vehicle development. Who knows, Rivian may drop the vehicle project or may continue it. The IPO provided Ford with a huge cash gain. No idea about the terms of the agreement. Ford may have rights to patents or "proprietary" info and use it themselves.
The biggest example was Microsoft and IBM. IBM had a competing OS but chose a less risky path. They did not buy MS, they did not buy the product line. They chose a less risky license agreement. Hindsight is great. Microsoft could have been a wholly owned sub of IBM. For all I know, Ford could have found some significant issues in the Lincoln product or they simply obtained some of the benefits and did not need to continue that path. They made a choice, only time will tell if it was a good choice. Fully disclosed as required by Rivian and Ford. Just as it should be.

[Kamban]

I bought a used 2013 honda civic in 2016 for 13k.

13k cash and done.

This civic gets amazing gas mileage and costs 13k.

Someone who buys an EV for 70-100k could have bought a civic and used the difference to help the environment. 70-13= 57k

I agree that this EV bubble looks somewhat similar to the crypto and dot.com bubbles.

But you really cant compare an used 2013 civic to a 70K EV. A more realistic one would be a new car to new EV or used car to used EV. The gasoline car prices have shot up in the last couple of years. And even before that they were getting pricey. In 2019 the civic would have been 20K and the standard range Tesla was 38K plus a1.75K tax credit. That 16K difference got a nice EV with a good range. Even my 2021Y was 49.9K and has a realistic range of 225 miles ( not letting it get too low). An equivalent ICE car would be 30-40K, depending on whether you want to compare to an Accord or BMW.

I am willing to save a bit of the environment for 15-20K more. Not 57K.

Best of all, I don't care about rising gasoline prices. I just charge at home each night or every other night.

[Nysoz]

Well Rivian is up another 14.5% now, almost 2x what their IPO target was for. Options trading should open tomorrow so good luck in the casino if anyone chooses to participate lol.

[xraygoggles]

Chamath Palihapitiya defends Rivian's $110 billion market cap, and says the EV startup's critics remind him of Tesla bears

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/chamath-palihapitiya-rivian-tesla-ev-startup-investing-amazon-underwriters-2021-11

Interesting take. Not saying I buy it...

[CordMcNally]

Chamath Palihapitiya defends Rivian's $110 billion market cap, and says the EV startup's critics remind him of Tesla bears

https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/chamath-palihapitiya-rivian-tesla-ev-startup-investing-amazon-underwriters-2021-11

Interesting take. Not saying I buy it...

Chamath is a dou**e.

[Nysoz]

The problem is just valuation. Right now it's $120B with no real revenue. It took 10 years for Tesla to get that valuation and successful ramp of their mass production car to get there. No one is denying their great product, just hesitating at their potential to execute and be profitable. It is a completely different market now though.

[xraygoggles]

Chamath is a dou**e.

Well, yeah, of course. He is a confidence man who is a great showman & salesman - kinda like some other executives in the EV space....

[CordMcNally]

Well, yeah, of course. He is a confidence man who is a great showman & salesman - kinda like some other executives in the EV space....

Chamath is a grifter whereas I don’t think Musk is.

[xraygoggles]

Chamath is a grifter whereas I don’t think Musk is.

Fake it till you make it. Applies to both

[Kamban]

Fake it till you make it. Applies to both

Elon is a visionary bringing to fruition Tesla, SpaceX, The Boring company, battery backups for large utilities, solar tiles etc.

Tn the other hand, Chamath just creates SPACs to help himself to other people's money. I doubt he has helped anyone but himself. Douchebag would be putting it mildly. They are not even on the same page.

[AR]

Chamath is a grifter whereas I don’t think Musk is.

They're both grifters. Just different kinds.

[Mitchel674]

Truly nuts! $166/share. I will sell when the value of my IPO shares reach the cost of my new R1S.

[Zzyzx]

The problem is just valuation. Right now it's $120B with no real revenue. It took 10 years for Tesla to get that valuation and successful ramp of their mass production car to get there. No one is denying their great product, just hesitating at their potential to execute and be profitable. It is a completely different market now though.

I just started my own electric vehicle company. So far, we have $0 in sales, 0 vehicles and 0 plans to make any. The fundamentals look strong.
I’m now worth $100 billion.

[CordMcNally]

Bigger than VW...because why not?

[Otolith]

#too big to fail