Bitcoin millionaire

[xraygoggles]

so you don’t really believe what you wrote?

for reference you said:



i thought i was being generous giving you a full 5 years

I have many prognostications but that doesn't mean I'm going to bet someone - I'd rather use that money to buy Dogecoin.

[Random1]

It is much more enjoyable to pick friends with boats and cabins at the mountain than those with an electronic wallet, he can't even buy you a drink yet with all of his bitcoin, because no one will accept it at the pub.

[jacoavlu]

It is much more enjoyable to pick friends with boats and cabins at the mountain than those with an electronic wallet, he can't even buy you a drink yet with all of his bitcoin, because no one will accept it at the pub.

i agree with the part about boats and cabins but not the rest

there are actually “neobanks” that will give you a debit card so you can spend btc or even other “crypto” like USD. though i think someone would be dumb to use such a product if they had any USD

the criticism of “but you can’t buy a cup of coffee with it” just really misses the point

[VentAlarm]

It still boggles my mind that some people don't invest in BTC. The mental gymnastics they have to go through to justify their reasoning is baffling. Out of all my investments, including VTSAX, VOO, REITs and crypto, BTC has the lowest risk, I truly believe that. When people say that BTC is riskier than VTSAX when looking at 10-20 year time frames, that blows my mind

There's a fixed supply, there will never be more than 21 million bitcoin and with more and more people accumulating, with corporations now buying and holding it on their balance sheets, with investment firms now buying and countries making it legal tender and therefore accumulating it and holding it in their reserves, the price will only go up long term. Short term there will be swings but long term it's a sure thing.

And to the people that think that EL Salvador will be the only country making it legal tender, let's just think about this. How many countries use the USD as their currency, without having their own native currency? How many countries have their own currency but it is pegged to the USD? Why would those countries continue to use the USD exclusively as their currency when lawmakers in the US continue to print money to give out stimulus checks to American citizens? People in those countries aren't getting stimulus checks. But they are getting the short end of the stick in the form of inflation and decreasing purchasing power. More countries will make it legal tender, demand will continue to increase, more and more corporations will keep it on their balance sheets and demand will continue to go up. Now what happens when demand continues to go up while supply is forever fixed?

Again, how are some people still not invested in this? How do they think that VTSAX is a safer investment than BTC long term? Absolutely blows my mind

Nothing is a sure thing. If you can’t see the flaws in your plan; that’s a problem.

I’m not “investing” in crypto for one reason: it’s the definition of speculation. There is no expected return. People “invested” in beanie babies and tulips. People can get rich trading commodities or currency, but that’s not investing. I’m investing.

Your massive under appreciation for the risk of an asset is problematic.

[jacoavlu]

Nothing is a sure thing. If you can’t see the flaws in your plan; that’s a problem.

I’m not “investing” in crypto for one reason: it’s the definition of speculation. There is no expected return. People “invested” in beanie babies and tulips. People can get rich trading commodities or currency, but that’s not investing. I’m investing.

Your massive under appreciation for the risk of an asset is problematic.

whether or not one categorizes buying bitcoin as speculation is irrelevant if we're having a meaningful discussion (i'm ignoring other crypto)

a fundamental question is whether one accepts the possibility of a digital money that is not backed by any government or issued by any central authority

if someone's answer is no then we can't really have a meaningful conversation

[VentAlarm]

whether or not one categorizes buying bitcoin as speculation is irrelevant if we're having a meaningful discussion (i'm ignoring other crypto)

a fundamental question is whether one accepts the possibility of a digital money that is not backed by any government or issued by any central authority

if someone's answer is no then we can't really have a meaningful conversation

That’s fair. I don’t see being non-governmental as a hill to die on, but I could be wrong. Same as gold in that manner. It’s just the lack of appropriate use of the term “investing.” The previous poster’s confidence was off putting.

Let me tell you how much my wife LOVES it when I remind her that a nice price of clothing or furniture isn’t an investment.

[Nysoz]

Nothing is a sure thing. If you can’t see the flaws in your plan; that’s a problem.

I’m not “investing” in crypto for one reason: it’s the definition of speculation. There is no expected return. People “invested” in beanie babies and tulips. People can get rich trading commodities or currency, but that’s not investing. I’m investing.

Your massive under appreciation for the risk of an asset is problematic.

I do agree with your points, but there is some "return" in the guise of interest for btc/crypto held at "brokerages". This varies significantly between all the different platforms and the different coin in question.

[jacoavlu]

That’s fair. I don’t see being non-governmental as a hill to die on, but I could be wrong. Same as gold in that manner. It’s just the lack of appropriate use of the term “investing.” The previous poster’s confidence was off putting.

Let me tell you how much my wife LOVES it when I remind her that a nice price of clothing or furniture isn’t an investment.

gold is an excellent analogy. if one can appreciate why gold became "money" they can appreciate why bitcoin might be a better money.

the analogy to tulips and beanie babies is nonsensical. tulips and beanie babies don't have good monetary properties, and they have essentially an infinite supply with misaligned incentives between producers and buyers.

gold actually also has misaligned incentives in that a significant increase in the price of gold is likely to result in a greater rate of inflation in supply. and while it has the better monetary properties than anything that existed before, it has significant limitations. which is what led to the creation of paper currencies, which worked fine until the gold standard was discarded

bitcoin uniquely aligns incentives in ways that nothing else can

[VentAlarm]

gold is an excellent analogy. if one can appreciate why gold became "money" they can appreciate why bitcoin might be a better money.

the analogy to tulips and beanie babies is nonsensical. tulips and beanie babies don't have good monetary properties, and they have essentially an infinite supply with misaligned incentives between producers and buyers.

gold actually also has misaligned incentives in that a significant increase in the price of gold is likely to result in a greater rate of inflation in supply. and while it has the better monetary properties than anything that existed before, it has significant limitations. which is what led to the creation of paper currencies, which worked fine until the gold standard was discarded

bitcoin uniquely aligns incentives in ways that nothing else can

It’s not a nonsensical analogy. Neither have intrinsic return and are both are 100% dependent on what the greater fool will pay.

[VentAlarm]

I do agree with your points, but there is some "return" in the guise of interest for btc/crypto held at "brokerages". This varies significantly between all the different platforms and the different coin in question.

Howso? I don’t follow.

[jacoavlu]

It’s not a nonsensical analogy. Neither have intrinsic return and are both are 100% dependent on what the greater fool will pay.

that's a strawman argument, which brings us back to a place we can't have a reasonable conversation about the asset

[jacoavlu]

Howso? I don’t follow.

I disagree with nysoz - "interest on bitcoin" isn't really a serious conversation to have, at least with regards to a debate about the inherent properties

[VentAlarm]

that's a strawman argument, which brings us back to a place we can't have a reasonable conversation about the asset

If you don’t want to engage, that’s fine. But writing off my argument doesn’t mean it’s wrong. By definition, commodities of this type lack intrinsic value. Gold can be made into materials, fuel can be burned. Bitcoin can only be exchanged for what someone else will pay for it. Explain how I’m wrong.

[jacoavlu]

If you don’t want to engage, that’s fine. But writing off my argument doesn’t mean it’s wrong. By definition, commodities of this type lack intrinsic value. Gold can be made into materials, fuel can be burned. Bitcoin can only be exchanged for what someone else will pay for it. Explain how I’m wrong.

i feel like i am engaging in an honest manner but I'm not sure how we go forward in the conversation. i never said you were wrong. i'm saying framing the conversation as "i don't speculate" and "greater fool theory" is just being dismissive

[Nysoz]

Howso? I don’t follow.

On certain platforms you can get interest paid on your btc/eth. I just keep mine on voyager as I don't want to deal with a wallet. In return for keeping my btc/eth on their platform, I get 5.75/4.6% interest paid in the respective crypto.

It works for me as I just want a little exposure and I'm too busy with my main portfolio or too lazy to figure out the cold storage wallet thing. I know not my wallet and not my coin and such and there's a risk, but it's 0.5-1% of my net worth so I just leave it on there and check on it monthly for my net worth calculations.