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  • #31
    You will never hear about the people who lost money gamblings like this. I had put in 10k towards an optional retirement from work... GME was hot back then so I bought all 10k worth GME and the next couple weeks it went down to 2.5k. I was bummed ... it took like another 4ish months for it to go back up to 300$ and I sold all and regained my 10k. I was very lucky. I didnt have the guts to tell my coworker of my stupid mistake when I lost all that money - we talk about our finances and strategies all the time. I told him after I recovered my money. He was very shocked that I didnt tell him initially...

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    • #32
      Originally posted by nycEMMD View Post

      I actually love when people make this argument, it kind of proves my point that we're still early. It's funny how many people will call it a bubble without taking the time to educate themselves on what crypto really is. If you did your due diligence I know for a fact you wouldn't be saying this. So as long as people keep thinking BTC is in a bubble I'll keep buying. As long as people keep thinking govt regulation can kill BTC, ill keep buying. As long as people are doubtful about crypto's potential in the future, I'll keep buying. And most importantly, as long as people continue to make misinformed statements about crypto, I'll keep buying. We're still super early
      kinda back and forth between “bitcoin” and “crypto”

      early isn’t always good. lots or perhaps most of “crypto” is trash

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      • #33
        https://www.kqed.org/news/11644927/e...ee-took-root-2

        After the Gold Rush ended in california, the masses believed that they would run out of wood. So the masses imported eucalyptus trees from Australia to harvest the wood when they did run out of wood. Nevermind that the wood was crap and I guess we never ran out of wood. But that tree can really flame up in a fire. When can we import koalas? No one would be against that.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by burritos View Post
          https://www.kqed.org/news/11644927/e...ee-took-root-2

          After the Gold Rush ended in california, the masses believed that they would run out of wood. So the masses imported eucalyptus trees from Australia to harvest the wood when they did run out of wood. Nevermind that the wood was crap and I guess we never ran out of wood. But that tree can really flame up in a fire. When can we import koalas? No one would be against that.
          How about importing hot Australian dudes ! Forget the koalas

          although I had kangaroo meat and starting a farm will not be a bad idea If nothing else just some exotic steaks

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

            early isn’t always good. lots or perhaps most of “crypto” is trash
            Agree that most crypto is trash. I would say that understanding blockchain technology and crypto in general is a prerequisite for making informed decisions on coins to invest in

            I think early is good in this case. Long term, BTC will keep going up and it will drag the whole crypto market up with it. Some coin will most definitely see their ATH this bull cycle and then fade away just like in 2017 but as long as you invest in solid projects you can't really go wrong here. We're still far away from mass adoption and institutional investors are just starting to put a good amount of money in. Invest most of your crypto money into BTC and ETH, add a small % in other solid projects, DCA in ever month and ride the ups and downs. Although I don't think we've seen the top of this year's bull market yet and I still think we can hit 100k by the end of this year, we most definitely will see a 30k BTC again in the next 4 years. Just hold, ride the waves and enjoy your gains by the end of 2025

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            • #36
              Originally posted by nycEMMD View Post

              Agree that most crypto is trash. I would say that understanding blockchain technology and crypto in general is a prerequisite for making informed decisions on coins to invest in

              I think early is good in this case. Long term, BTC will keep going up and it will drag the whole crypto market up with it. Some coin will most definitely see their ATH this bull cycle and then fade away just like in 2017 but as long as you invest in solid projects you can't really go wrong here. We're still far away from mass adoption and institutional investors are just starting to put a good amount of money in. Invest most of your crypto money into BTC and ETH, add a small % in other solid projects, DCA in ever month and ride the ups and downs. Although I don't think we've seen the top of this year's bull market yet and I still think we can hit 100k by the end of this year, we most definitely will see a 30k BTC again in the next 4 years. Just hold, ride the waves and enjoy your gains by the end of 2025
              haha you quoted me but deleted a pertinent thought

              all the buzzwords. “crypto” “blockchain” “projects”

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by jfoxcpacfp View Post

                Why does this sound so familiar? Of course! I was watching CNBC nonstop in early 2000. And up to my eyeballs in Yahoo investing forums.

                So so glad I learned that lesson with my own money before becoming a financial planner and charging people money for this advice. Unfortunately, investment advisors who haven’t learned yet (and never will) are pretty easy to bump into. And I bet some of your colleagues are recommending them.
                what was the lesson?

                im honestly interested in your thoughts. you are in a unique position. folks coming to you for advice. you have clients interested in bitcoin and “crypto”. you have clients that out their money there whether they tell you or not

                you have knowledge on various investment products even if you don’t recommend them. you’re pretty famously anti bonds or at least advise less bonds than most. but you know about bonds

                so i’m curious if you’ve spent any time to try to understand bitcoin? if it’s trash you should know enough to be able to talk your clients out of it. if that’s your position

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                  what did you find out
                  Yes I think so. However I did not actually buy any yet. BITO

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                    what was the lesson?

                    im honestly interested in your thoughts. you are in a unique position. folks coming to you for advice. you have clients interested in bitcoin and “crypto”. you have clients that out their money there whether they tell you or not

                    you have knowledge on various investment products even if you don’t recommend them. you’re pretty famously anti bonds or at least advise less bonds than most. but you know about bonds

                    so i’m curious if you’ve spent any time to try to understand bitcoin? if it’s trash you should know enough to be able to talk your clients out of it. if that’s your position
                    Thank you for asking.

                    No, no, no, I don’t think bitcoin is trash. But I do believe it’s a huge gamble at this point. It is worth never forgetting there is an informed seller for every informed buyer. Remember, Amazon dropped ~90% in the dot.com crash. It was on the way to becoming a great company, but the fundamentals were just not there for the valuation. I believe a lot will wash out in the next few years (who knows - decades?). Of course, I believe there will be survivors, it’s just not even close to a sure bet what this area will look like then, as a much more stable sector, versus now. I don’t promote any single sector and never will.

                    Have I studied it? A bit, but I think you may not realize that I support a very basic, simple, appropriately diversified portfolio of index equity funds for the long term, liquidity for the short term (bonds and savings accounts), with allocations determined based upon a plan. The portfolio is diversified among LCG, LCV, SCG, SCV, INT’L, and RE. Crypto alone does not have a place except in clients’ personal speculative portfolios; many of our clients own crypto. We laugh about it together, as I am always willing to discuss. I won’t be their cheerleader, but do my part to make sure they understand this is a speculation. We’ve had clients lose a lot (including in a crypto Ponzi scheme) and win a lot. Neither result sways me one bit, as I get paid to give solid advice and stick to my investment principles. Even though I’m not being paid to comment here, I do feel a certain responsibility for the readers who are motivated to buy based on comments from the cryptomaniacs.

                    I am certainly not “anti” bond and that so-called “fame” is unjustified, as I have written about on multiple occasions and which many people choose to blandly overlook. I simply believe they are used as a ROT substitute for a solid financial plan. Many of our clients own bonds, with our blessing, but according to a plan. And I must say, it has worked quite well for them.

                    nycEMMD is obviously super-excited about this wonderful, magical opportunity where ignorant, plodding, boring investors like me impel him to buy more as we overlook such an obvious opportunity. It goes against my nature to talk up “sure things” and I’m happy to side with Warren B on this one.
                    Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jfoxcpacfp View Post

                      Thank you for asking.

                      No, no, no, I don’t think bitcoin is trash. But I do believe it’s a huge gamble at this point. It is worth never forgetting there is an informed seller for every informed buyer. Remember, Amazon dropped ~90% in the dot.com crash. It was on the way to becoming a great company, but the fundamentals were just not there for the valuation. I believe a lot will wash out in the next few years (who knows - decades?). Of course, I believe there will be survivors, it’s just not even close to a sure bet what this area will look like then, as a much more stable sector, versus now. I don’t promote any single sector and never will.

                      Have I studied it? A bit, but I think you may not realize that I support a very basic, simple, appropriately diversified portfolio of index equity funds for the long term, liquidity for the short term (bonds and savings accounts), with allocations determined based upon a plan. The portfolio is diversified among LCG, LCV, SCG, SCV, INT’L, and RE. Crypto alone does not have a place except in clients’ personal speculative portfolios; many of our clients own crypto. We laugh about it together, as I am always willing to discuss. I won’t be their cheerleader, but do my part to make sure they understand this is a speculation. We’ve had clients lose a lot (including in a crypto Ponzi scheme) and win a lot. Neither result sways me one bit, as I get paid to give solid advice and stick to my investment principles. Even though I’m not being paid to comment here, I do feel a certain responsibility for the readers who are motivated to buy based on comments from the cryptomaniacs.

                      I am certainly not “anti” bond and that so-called “fame” is unjustified, as I have written about on multiple occasions and which many people choose to blandly overlook. I simply believe they are used as a ROT substitute for a solid financial plan. Many of our clients own bonds, with our blessing, but according to a plan. And I must say, it has worked quite well for them.

                      nycEMMD is obviously super-excited about this wonderful, magical opportunity where ignorant, plodding, boring investors like me impel him to buy more as we overlook such an obvious opportunity. It goes against my nature to talk up “sure things” and I’m happy to side with Warren B on this one.
                      the informed seller vs buyer goes for everything.

                      so if a client comes to you now, early attending career, good income stable job living below their means maxing out 401k etc. and says hey i read a little bit about bitcoin and crypto and am curious should we invest some in this instead of taxable (equities presumably)

                      what do you say?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                        the informed seller vs buyer goes for everything.

                        so if a client comes to you now, early attending career, good income stable job living below their means maxing out 401k etc. and says hey i read a little bit about bitcoin and crypto and am curious should we invest some in this instead of taxable (equities presumably)

                        what do you say?
                        Not in my opinion. But it’s fine to buy it in your play account as long as you won’t miss the money if you lose it all. We simply won’t include It in your net worth calc’s. Now, let’s move on to projected FI date and how to get there according to plan…
                        Our passion is protecting clients and others from predatory and ignorant advisors. Fox & Co CPAs, Fox & Co Wealth Mgmt. 270-247-6087

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by jfoxcpacfp View Post

                          Not in my opinion. But it’s fine to buy it in your play account as long as you won’t miss the money if you lose it all. We simply won’t include It in your net worth calc’s. Now, let’s move on to projected FI date and how to get there according to plan…
                          after “not in your opinion” the next question is “why”

                          and huh not include in net worth calcs? that’s odd. please expand

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            jacoavlu I think jfox addressed it in her previous comment. Too speculative at this point.

                            There should be a distinction between btc and eth and the rest of the crypto space. There should also be a distinction between BTC and ETH. But that's all discussed in another thread. I don't think Jfox is coming out of left field when it comes to financial advice and putting crypto in the "play" space.

                            In discussing crypto with a physician friend who is also in the space, he wants to utilize it on run ups to utilize margin to purchase real estate with. You can be in the dogmatic crypto camp and HODL and think that eventually we will be paying with things in satoshis/libra/dogecoin/whatever or you can have exit points to scale out when it's reached a certain fiat value. OR you can bridge the 2 and realize both spaces will likely coexist.

                            For many who are really speculating in in cryptocurrency, there isn't an exit plan. But in order to have a decent debate about cryptocurrency in a portfolio, one needs to define WHICH cryptocurrency. At least on this board, it should be assumed that that is predominantly BTC or ETH based, much like when we presume a well diversified stock portfolio has a low cost Vanguard/Fidelity/Schwab TMF rather than a fee loaded fund from elsewhere.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              “Bitcoin … is a highly speculative asset, but it is a store of value that people wish to invest in as some would invest in gold,”.

                              - Gary Gensler, SEC chair.

                              Crypto landscape is changing at a fairly rapid pace. A 2.5 trillion dollar market cap (and growing) asset class won't just disappear overnight - it may correct 30-50% like we saw this year, sure, but it's here to stay, period.

                              For those that continually espouse the Chicken Little 'sky is falling' mantra, I suggest they actually read up on the advancements taking place in the entire sphere. 'Follow the money' is a trite aphorism, but it really holds true in the blockchain sphere: Big Money (TM), Smart Money(TM), Venture Capital, et. al. are not dummies.

                              BITO is just the beginning of institutional adoption of Bitcoin, and crypto in general. This may sound incredulous right now, but within 2-5 years at the very most (likely much sooner), there will be not only Bitcoin spot ETFs, but Ether ETFs, blue-chip large cap Defi index ETFs, Dogecoin ETFs, etc. which will be provided by BlackRock and other large firms with low expense ratios. If that sounds far-fetched to you, which I have a feeling it will to many on here, prepare to be amazed going forward.

                              I like this article as a primer on how institutions would approach BTC/crypto:
                              https://coinshares.com/research/inst...-factors-watch

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                It makes perfect sense not to include bitcoin in standard portfolios. Bitcoins main characteristic is volatility. Its impossible to have amazing returns without this volatility, which is fed by leverage as well.

                                For most normies, they are scared of barely leverage, due to lots of things but mainly the increased volatility it could bring. Most advisors would never suggest a 3x S&P fund even though its probably half or so of BTC.

                                Like being a doctor even if you have a view that something is okay, if it is against the "standard of care" or current paradigm, theres just no way you recommend it. Recommending something is very very different than allowing someone to do it anyway because they want to.

                                You have to take reality and industry standards into account. Suggesting bitcoin and having something happens is not really a defensible position.

                                Does the person have bonds? Why not increase equities? Vol, then btc makes no sense. Why not leverage? Scary, well btc makes no sense for you. Etc..etc...

                                Now someone who maybe loves 3x funds, trades options, etc...can they handle btc, ofc they can.

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