Altcoins, DeFi thread

[jacoavlu]

& Shib has far outperformed Doge.

but of course, created much later

[Doc Spouse]

Anyone have any opinions about Solana?

(sorry if I’m not allowed to post about solana on a Bitcoin thread. Didn’t want to start a new crypto thread for something most people won’t care about).

Loved Solana for a long time. Bought it back when it was under $10 and sold it after it broke $200. It was long past due for a breakout, especially considering what it brought to the table and who was backing it. I think it will continue to go up, but it'll likely be tracking more with the market. I've slowly been removing some of the riskier plays in prep for January/February. Been through too many crypto winters not to take some money off the table. :P I'll probably jump back in Solana after we get past the first quarter and see what the market is doing.

[xraygoggles]

Loved Solana for a long time. Bought it back when it was under $10 and sold it after it broke $200. It was long past due for a breakout, especially considering what it brought to the table and who was backing it. I think it will continue to go up, but it'll likely be tracking more with the market. I've slowly been removing some of the riskier plays in prep for January/February. Been through too many crypto winters not to take some money off the table. :P I'll probably jump back in Solana after we get past the first quarter and see what the market is doing.

Great return. I sorta agree with you re: crypto winter, but I also kinda think this may be more of a supercycle, where it trends up gradually, assuming equities keep on chugging along. Now that there is uncertainty again in the markets, it could get choppy quickly in crypto.

[Doc Spouse]

Great return. I sorta agree with you re: crypto winter, but I also kinda think this may be more of a supercycle, where it trends up gradually, assuming equities keep on chugging along. Now that there is uncertainty again in the markets, it could get choppy quickly in crypto.

I'd love for you to be correct, as I could certainly do with another year or two like the last.

It's been funny watching the NFT markets at the end of the tax year. Everyone seems to be dumping their lesser performing NFT's at, or below, floor which drives things down even more. By January there are going to be a lot of dead projects or good deals, depending on how you look at things.

[xraygoggles]

I'd love for you to be correct, as I could certainly do with another year or two like the last.

It's been funny watching the NFT markets at the end of the tax year. Everyone seems to be dumping their lesser performing NFT's at, or below, floor which drives things down even more. By January there are going to be a lot of dead projects or good deals, depending on how you look at things.

Yeah, the apex was in August and since then has kinda petered off. Are you into any Solana or Binance NFTs? Or just the Ethereum ones?

[Doc Spouse]

Yeah, the apex was in August and since then has kinda petered off. Are you into any Solana or Binance NFTs? Or just the Ethereum ones?

Just ETH at the moment and, as I mentioned, I've been pulling back out of most of those. I've been heavy into Gala since last December; so most of my NFT purchases these days are for one of their games. Some huge returns on those with their P2E mechanics.

[Dusn]

As I’ve looked into solana one thing concerns me.

the founders say that they will release almost 500M coins total and of these about half have already been released. So it sounds like the founders still stand to gain ~200M coins x market price (currently $222) on top of what they’ve already made. That’s assuming that the number of coins that they report will be released is true.

what exactly have they done to deserve this kind of payout? Created a coin that can be used to buy NFTs?

[jacoavlu]

Vitalik, the creator of Ethereum, described the trilemma of blockchain network creation, which essentially says that you can't increase the capacity of a network or the # of nodes without sacrificing decentralization or security. It's a zero sum game between decentralization, security, and performance.

Solana sacrifices decentralization for high performance (speed) with very low transaction costs (pennies or less). It will take up some significant market share from Ethereum network in the long run, that seems clear.

Also, another metric to look at is developer activity, which is currently highest on Solana, due to the low fees/fast performance. Some Eth developers are even switching over, but I still think the network effects and funding on the Eth network is too strong to be completely overtaken by any other L1 chain.

vitalik is now essentially admitting that eth will trend toward centralization. which makes perfect sense, as long as you’re not trying to fix the monetary system

https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html

[xraygoggles]

what exactly have they done to deserve this kind of payout? Created a coin that can be used to buy NFTs?

Solana does all transactions quickly and cheaply - that's why speculation in the token has increased its value 100x in 1 year. NFTs are likely a small proportion of total transactions on the network.

Not sure what you mean by deserve it - if x # of coins were given to VCs or founders in the initial memo, then that's what they get... it's like any other high-growth startup.

[xraygoggles]

vitalik is now essentially admitting that eth will trend toward centralization. which makes perfect sense, as long as you’re not trying to fix the monetary system

https://vitalik.ca/general/2021/12/06/endgame.html

I can't really understand all the technical stuff in that link. But in general, I don't think the amount of decentralization is as crucially important as some people think it is. After all, there are exponentially more developers on Eth, Sol, etc than Btc. So many people are obviously finding these networks valuable.

[Dusn]

Solana does all transactions quickly and cheaply - that's why speculation in the token has increased its value 100x in 1 year. NFTs are likely a small proportion of total transactions on the network.

Not sure what you mean by deserve it - if x # of coins were given to VCs or founders in the initial memo, then that's what they get... it's like any other high-growth startup.

But how do we even know if what it says in the initial memo is true? What if 10x that number of coins were given to VC or the founders?

What else can you buy with it besides NFTs and where can you find out what practical future applications the developers are working on?

[Dusn]

I can't really understand all the technical stuff in that link. But in general, I don't think the amount of decentralization is as crucially important as some people think it is. After all, there are exponentially more developers on Eth, Sol, etc than Btc. So many people are obviously finding these networks valuable.

As far as I can tell decentralization and anonymity is everything. If an oligarch pisses of Putin for example, he needs a way to hide his money that’s accessible to him when he’s on the run or in hiding. Bitcoin seems perfect for that. Hiding money during divorces, to avoid taxes, ransomware, money laundering, as a way to avoid sanctions… that all could add up to a lot of money. Feel free to tell me why these reasons could not be a major player in bitcoins rise, I definitely am no expert.

[jacoavlu]

I can't really understand all the technical stuff in that link. But in general, I don't think the amount of decentralization is as crucially important as some people think it is. After all, there are exponentially more developers on Eth, Sol, etc than Btc. So many people are obviously finding these networks valuable.

i dont understand the technicals either. but the point is, which ive made before, is we should stop pretending that eth and all these other coins are competing with btc.

btc aim is to be permissionless digital money with no central authority, not a utility token controlled by a central authority to some variable degree.

eth, sol etc can have use cases, and those will be better served by centralization which optimizes for much bigger blocks, faster block times, lower fees, etc.

[jacoavlu]

As far as I can tell decentralization and anonymity is everything. If an oligarch pisses of Putin for example, he needs a way to hide his money that’s accessible to him when he’s on the run or in hiding. Bitcoin seems perfect for that. Hiding money during divorces, to avoid taxes, ransomware, money laundering, as a way to avoid sanctions… that all could add up to a lot of money. Feel free to tell me why these reasons could not be a major player in bitcoins rise, I definitely am no expert.

bitcoin isn't really perfect for that. it would be very difficult if not impossible to obtain a lot of bitcoin anonymously. secure yes, unconfiscatible yes, anonymous way more of a challenge

[xraygoggles]

i dont understand the technicals either. but the point is, which ive made before, is we should stop pretending that eth and all these other coins are competing with btc.

btc aim is to be permissionless digital money with no central authority, not a utility token controlled by a central authority to some variable degree.

eth, sol etc can have use cases, and those will be better served by centralization which optimizes for much bigger blocks, faster block times, lower fees, etc.

Ya, I don't think anyone thinks that they are money (except maybe their maxis). When I think of competing, I'm really referring to market cap, like as an investment/speculation.