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  • #31
    Originally posted by chocolatebear11 View Post

    Definitely interesting and something way beyond my knowledge.

    these defi tokens or other crypto tokens are built on Ethereum. Does that mean we have to use the defi token and the Ethereum.

    — I just don’t understand why everything needs a token. It just seems like a way for that company or team to gain capital without giving out any stake in the company.
    — people are buying these token in hopes the value goes up not because they will think they will use these tokens which begs the question why are these tokens needed. Shouldn’t these tokens have one price, not a price that goes up or down with demand like “stocks”
    Ether, the token, is used to transact on the Ethereum blockchain. So for example, if you wanted to buy Aave token, you would trade ETH for AAVE on a DEX (you would use ETH to pay for the gas fees, which are the commission for doing any transaction).

    Yes, the vast majority of coins are speculative and ultimately worthless, but that doesn't mean you can't make money from them in a bull market. Not for the faint of heart, however. Wild swings.
    Last edited by xraygoggles; 03-15-2021, 01:03 PM.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

      No, but its useful for financializing or collateralizing assets.

      A house is an asset.
      right.

      you brought up house, car, artwork.

      again how does it apply to a house. Or car.

      and no don’t use an example of fractionalizing Paul Newman’s Le Mans 935

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      • #33
        Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

        right.

        you brought up house, car, artwork.

        again how does it apply to a house. Or car.

        and no don’t use an example of fractionalizing Paul Newman’s Le Mans 935
        Well, I'm just saying it's a possibility that a real asset can be created as an NFT, and then that NFT is used in conjunction with an online marketplace like Zillow or Redfin. I don't know how exactly it would work, but it seems possible.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

          Well, I'm just saying it's a possibility that a real asset can be created as an NFT, and then that NFT is used in conjunction with an online marketplace like Zillow or Redfin. I don't know how exactly it would work, but it seems possible.
          possible of course. But pointless.

          go ahead and tokenize a Picasso hanging on a wall, sell a million tokens or whatever to fractionalize it, put it on the blockchain

          then when a guy with a gun takes the art piece, tell me who owns it ?

          same for a house.

          defi selling point should not be, fixing things that aren’t broken

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          • #35
            That's interesting because now the owners of the tokens 'own' that Picasso, but the thief 'has' the art. So while the thief has it in their possession, they can't sell it because they don't 'own' it which would be verified via blockchain/NFTs or whatever when they try to sell it.

            High end art largely exists to speculate and transfer money from one person to another or to say you own something rare. If someone wants to buy it, knowing they can't sell it in the future, what would it be worth then?

            Same way if someone takes your house at gunpoint. You still own the house as documented by deed/title or whatever.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
              That's interesting because now the owners of the tokens 'own' that Picasso, but the thief 'has' the art. So while the thief has it in their possession, they can't sell it because they don't 'own' it which would be verified via blockchain/NFTs or whatever when they try to sell it.

              High end art largely exists to speculate and transfer money from one person to another or to say you own something rare. If someone wants to buy it, knowing they can't sell it in the future, what would it be worth then?

              Same way if someone takes your house at gunpoint. You still own the house as documented by deed/title or whatever.
              depends if you live in california or not

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              • #37
                Originally posted by Nysoz View Post
                That's interesting because now the owners of the tokens 'own' that Picasso, but the thief 'has' the art. So while the thief has it in their possession, they can't sell it because they don't 'own' it which would be verified via blockchain/NFTs or whatever when they try to sell it.
                No one will buy it from the thief ? Lol

                and when a million token holders own it and have to go to court to enforce some property rights, who pays the lawyers? Who shows up in court? Who calls the cops?

                it’s as if people want to throw the words “blockchain” and “defi” at everything, when the current state of affairs works pretty well, and actually has real advantages

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                • #38
                  Depends on the system in place. Say a piece of art is worth $50M. You buy that because you like looking at it, can say you own it, can potentially resell it later on for more (because it's rare and has continuously gone up in value over time).

                  If the art's ownership is token'd out, if you try and sell it to any other legitimate place, they check the tokens and see you don't actually own it so you can't sell it via any other legitimate means. Now the actual ownership is owned by the token holders and the actual piece of art is in possession of the thief. So the thief can sell it on the black market to someone that can appreciate the traditional value of art, just having it to look at it. That purchaser knows in the future that they can't sell it via any legitimate way ever again. If they do, they risk losing the art being taken back because the ownership is well documented from the tokens. They also can't advertise that they possess it because it's not theirs and the owners can reappropriate the art back to the museum or holding place again. How much would someone pay for that piece of art now that you can't advertise you have it or resell in the future? Also when they die, the estate would have to give it back. Would it still be worth $50M to them?

                  Who knows how this would all work. Maybe the lawyers or bounty hunters or whatever get a small fraction of the tokens for recovering it. But it would be way easier to prove ownership because all the tokens are in the 'blockchain' so documents can't be forged or other arguments made.

                  I do remember the first blockchain bubble, especially this one CEO that was on CNBC trying to explain his business and just kept saying blockchain over and over again. You could see the company lose like 20% in value in real time in the after hours trading. I'm not arguing for or against this whole blockchain/NFT thing, I think it's just weird and interesting.

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                  • #39
                    “blockchain, not bitcoin” was a fad for a minute

                    people wanted to say it was the blockchain tech that was the disruptive force and the bitcoin token didn’t really matter

                    IBM spun up a blockchain team with like 100 employees. Vanguard was talking about blockchain as I recall. it was all the rage. What happened?

                    that IBM team has eliminated all but a few employees.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post
                      “blockchain, not bitcoin” was a fad for a minute
                      people wanted to say it was the blockchain tech that was the disruptive force and the bitcoin token didn’t really matter
                      Well, Bitcoin wouldn't exist without the blockchain, so there's that...

                      Blockchain is akin to the advent of the internet, but to a lesser extent: there will be a learning curve with many baby steps to understand its usefulness, and then its inevitable integration in various corporations and governments. It's just a matter of time IMO.

                      Just because some companies have had trouble utilizing blockchain right now doesn't necessarily mean it's not going to be useful in the future.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

                        Well, Bitcoin wouldn't exist without the blockchain, so there's that...

                        Blockchain is akin to the advent of the internet, but to a lesser extent: there will be a learning curve with many baby steps to understand its usefulness, and then its inevitable integration in various corporations and governments. It's just a matter of time IMO.

                        Just because some companies have had trouble utilizing blockchain right now doesn't necessarily mean it's not going to be useful in the future.
                        bitcoin is a good application of the blockchain because it’s solving a real problem

                        im simply encouraging those bullish on defi to apply the same to other applications

                        bitcoin doesn’t have customer service

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                        • #42
                          now stable is something people will listen to: https://techcrunch.com/2021/03/29/vi...?tpcc=ECTW2020

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                          • #43
                            ETH futures

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                            • #44
                              I've made quite a bit of money on buying and selling NFT's in the last few months. It's definitely a craze, but one that will have long-term applications, much like blockchain. You have the art side, which is definitely experiencing a bubble. On the other hand, NFT's which provide utility are starting to appear, and people are starting to notice the possible uses. House deeds and car titles, art provenance, game assets. That's just the tip of the iceberg for things that would benefit greatly from having an immutable record of ownership from the time of creation until the present.

                              I have no doubt we'll soon see the bubble burst and most of the NFT's I'm seeing tossed around for tens of thousands of dollars will be worthless overnight. I likewise have no doubt that NFT's will continue to be used, and there will be plenty more that are being sold for thousands, if not millions of dollars. Technology marches on.

                              Edit: Came across my feed as soon as I hit submit. Can't forget collectibles as benefiting from immutable ownership records, either - https://www.wsj.com/articles/maker-o...09275?mod=e2tw
                              I should have been a pair of ragged claws. Scuttling across the floors of silent seas.

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Doc Spouse View Post
                                I've made quite a bit of money on buying and selling NFT's in the last few months. It's definitely a craze, but one that will have long-term applications, much like blockchain. You have the art side, which is definitely experiencing a bubble. On the other hand, NFT's which provide utility are starting to appear, and people are starting to notice the possible uses. House deeds and car titles, art provenance, game assets. That's just the tip of the iceberg for things that would benefit greatly from having an immutable record of ownership from the time of creation until the present.

                                I have no doubt we'll soon see the bubble burst and most of the NFT's I'm seeing tossed around for tens of thousands of dollars will be worthless overnight. I likewise have no doubt that NFT's will continue to be used, and there will be plenty more that are being sold for thousands, if not millions of dollars. Technology marches on.

                                Edit: Came across my feed as soon as I hit submit. Can't forget collectibles as benefiting from immutable ownership records, either - https://www.wsj.com/articles/maker-o...09275?mod=e2tw
                                I'm personally not a big fan of the craze NFTs like art, NBA Top Shot, etc. but you've got to think that their use for the other things you mentioned are going to be huge.

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