Altcoins, DeFi thread

[xraygoggles]

ETH miners don’t want the proposed change. Already seeing shots fired between devs and miners. It will be interesting to see how this plays out. I will be watching from the sidelines.

Miners mine for profit; profit is going to decrease switching to PoS; hence they are sad. Not surprising.

[jacoavlu]

do you not believe in metcalfe's law? surely faster and cheaper transactions will have more people part of the ETH system, no?

fast and cheap transactions for what purpose?

[jacoavlu]

Miners mine for profit; profit is going to decrease switching to PoS; hence they are sad. Not surprising.

it poses an interesting question. Who controls the ETH network?

[Panscan]

fast and cheap transactions for what purpose?

DeFi?

[jacoavlu]

DeFi?

that’s very nonspecific

for instance. Bitcoin only creates a new block about every 10 mins. So for transaction settlement you need at least 30 mins (3 blocks is pretty standard)

but for what bitcoin does that’s fine.

lightning network is layer 2 if you want ultra fast transactions.

“defi” may or may not need rapid transactions

[chocolatebear11]

Why does bitcoin have potential store of value that something like eth doesn't? I don't see it that way at all. so far bitcoin seems to be the most simple and efficient crypto, which obviously has it's own drawbacks that people are trying to address with other cryptos or layers or blockchain on top of BTC. I'm not sure why that means BTC is somehow a better store of value than any of the other cryptos

My understanding is there’s only a finite number of Bitcoin (21 million).

With Ethereum, there’s unlimited number and because it doesn’t have first mover advantage anyone can make another crypto like it. There’s infinite number of Ethereum.


Someone can try to make another Bitcoin (Bitcoin cash), but the network of people
mining and working on it can’t be easily replaced.

[xraygoggles]

Bitcoin seems like the only crypto worth investing in because of its potential for store of value.

I wonder if blockchain technology will just be like the internet where you can’t invest in the technology but it will just be readily used.

all these 1000s of altcoins, I don’t understand why they are needed. Ethereum could be easily replaced by another token (everything is open sourced). You’re buying tokens wanting the price of it to go but you don’t have a stake in the company. At the same time, the alt coins are supposed to be used in the system for some purpose.

It’s interesting but Maybe I’m missing something.

There are many different categories of DeFi coins on the Ethereum blockchain: lending projects, DEXs (decentralized exchanges), derivatives, yield farms, stablecoins, NFTs, etc.

Yes, most of these will fail, but there will be some winners. (akin to dot-com boom: pets.com & webvan vs. amazon & cisco)

Check this out if interested: https://defiprime.com/#defi_projects

[Panscan]

There are finite numbers of other cryptos though, I don't think that necessarily makes them better stores of value. With the changes to ETH 2.0 there is a deflationary component where coins(or a tiny fraction of) are consumed with each transaction to offset the inflationary component associated with not having a hard cap.

Something like ripple has a large hard cap, yet it has its own issues with being relatively centralized for crypto for example.

I think there are many factors for determining potentials for store of value and the supply of it is just one aspect.

[Panscan]

that’s very nonspecific

for instance. Bitcoin only creates a new block about every 10 mins. So for transaction settlement you need at least 30 mins (3 blocks is pretty standard)

but for what bitcoin does that’s fine.

lightning network is layer 2 if you want ultra fast transactions.

“defi” may or may not need rapid transactions

When I envision defi in what I predict the mature stage will be (lets say 10 years down the road), I see it as making essentially all aspects or at least the vast majority of current financial systems blockchain based and essentially cutting out the middlemen primarily banks and financial institutions. To me, to do this requires rapid transactions.

[jacoavlu]

When I envision defi in what I predict the mature stage will be (lets say 10 years down the road), I see it as making essentially all aspects or at least the vast majority of current financial systems blockchain based and essentially cutting out the middlemen primarily banks and financial institutions. To me, to do this requires rapid transactions.

I’m not in the burn it all down camp. I’m perfectly happy with my Schwab, vanguard etc accounts. Matter of fact I like having a phone number I can call

how About you?

[xraygoggles]

Anyone have any opinions on NFTs?

Obviously, it's currently in a massive bubble of epic proportions (69M for meme-based artwork, 300k for crappy pixelated cryptopunks, etc.). But the underlying concept is very ingenious, and will be useful in many spheres.

I would not be at all surprised if, within 10-20 years, a portion of all real assets which have some extrinsic or intrinsic value (car, house, artwork) will become financialized and placed on the blockchain, and traded or sold via NFTs.

But particularly when it comes to royalty-backed assets (record masters, original prints, book publishing, one-hit wonder songs etc) where the provenance is crucial to its value, these will likely be incorporated within NFTs, or some other similar type of blockchain-backed project. It's a win-win for both the artist as well as the NFT purchaser: it allows things which are normally hard to sell (house comes to mind, but any of the above) much simpler, while the original owner gets a small commission every time it's traded.

[jacoavlu]

Anyone have any opinions on NFTs?

Obviously, it's currently in a massive bubble of epic proportions (69M for meme-based artwork, 300k for crappy pixelated cryptopunks, etc.). But the underlying concept is very ingenious, and will be useful in many spheres.

I would not be at all surprised if, within 10-20 years, a portion of all real assets which have some extrinsic or intrinsic value (car, house, artwork) will become financialized and placed on the blockchain, and traded or sold via NFTs.

But particularly when it comes to royalty-backed assets (record masters, original prints, book publishing, one-hit wonder songs etc) where the provenance is crucial to its value, these will likely be incorporated within NFTs, or some other similar type of blockchain-backed project. It's a win-win for both the artist as well as the NFT purchaser: it allows things which are normally hard to sell (house comes to mind, but any of the above) much simpler, while the original owner gets a small commission every time it's traded.

blockchain is not a universal application

explain to me how selling a house applies?

[chocolatebear11]

There are many different categories of DeFi coins on the Ethereum blockchain: lending projects, DEXs (decentralized exchanges), derivatives, yield farms, stablecoins, NFTs, etc.

Yes, most of these will fail, but there will be some winners. (akin to dot-com boom: pets.com & webvan vs. amazon & cisco)

Check this out if interested: https://defiprime.com/#defi_projects

Definitely interesting and something way beyond my knowledge.

these defi tokens or other crypto tokens are built on Ethereum. Does that mean we have to use the defi token and the Ethereum.

— I just don’t understand why everything needs a token. It just seems like a way for that company or team to gain capital without giving out any stake in the company.
— people are buying these token in hopes the value goes up not because they will think they will use these tokens which begs the question why are these tokens needed. Shouldn’t these tokens have one price, not a price that goes up or down with demand like “stocks”

[sweetnpsycho]

— I just don’t understand why everything needs a token. It just seems like a way for that company or team to gain capital without giving out any stake in the company.
— people are buying these token in hopes the value goes up not because they will think they will use these tokens which begs the question why are these tokens needed. Shouldn’t these tokens have one price, not a price that goes up or down with demand like “stocks”

That's why I don't invest / speculate in cryptocurrency.

Token is incentive for people to do the work -- for miners to mine and for early adapters to work on the technology. People are willing to pay for token to speculate. Lots of people cannot explain why cryptocurrency will increase in value apart from someone else will pay more for it in the future, especially when it goes against Metcalfe's law. Network effect will be less rich due to the barrier of access. Imagine how less rich the internet would be if it was running on tokens.

The technology is interesting and I may invest in companies who use the technology, but it doesn't make sense why cryptocurrency would yield excessive rates of return.

[xraygoggles]

blockchain is not a universal application

explain to me how selling a house applies?

No, but its useful for financializing or collateralizing assets.

A house is an asset.