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  • I was always too afraid to invest in crypto. When I asked the basic questions, what is this good for, it seems like it is mostly good for illegal activities. Burdensome to use, easy to lose, and regular currency already has ease of electronic transactions. Yes, it is free of government control, and free of exchange costs, but for how long? Won’t governments need to regulate it once it gets big enough to destroy financial markets?

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    • I’m just genuinely curious, as I can go 10 pages deep on a google search and not get a straight answer on this stuff. Is everyone still happily collecting their 9% interest on their holdings and doing fine, despite these tumultuous times? It looks like some of these companies are now worth 1/10th of what they were and are laying off swaths of employees, but I don’t see any reports of anyone losing money on this venture, but it’s hard to sort through 100s of pages of advertisements and get anywhere.
      Last edited by Jaqen Haghar MD; 07-15-2022, 02:31 PM.

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      • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
        I’m just genuinely curious, as I can go 10 pages deep on a google search and not get a straight answer on this stuff. Is everyone still happily collecting their 9% interest on their holdings and doing fine, despite these tumultuous times? It looks like some of these companies are now worth 1/10th of what they were and are laying off swaths of employees, but I don’t see any reports of anyone loosing money on this venture, but it’s hard to sort through 100s of pages of advertisements and get anywhere.
        Instead of 9 percent apy, some people are waking up to a 90 percent loss.

        Voyager went under. Looks like 80 cents on the dollar for returns to the customer at best.

        Celsius filled. We will need to see the return.

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        • Originally posted by udrag14 View Post

          Instead of 9 percent apy, some people are waking up to a 90 percent loss.

          Voyager went under. Looks like 80 cents on the dollar for returns to the customer at best.

          Celsius filled. We will need to see the return.
          I’m sure the jury is still out, but does this mean the tired, old premise, that risk and return are intimately tethered, still applies in the modern age? …It guess would appear so. Nothing really comes up negative about these experiences on a basic search.

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          • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

            I’m sure the jury is still out, but does this mean the tired, old premise, that risk and return are intimately tethered, still applies in the modern age? …It guess would appear so. Nothing really comes up negative about these experiences on a basic search.
            Kind of like humble bragging about your EX-wife.

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            • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
              Here’s a serious question…. How are these 8-10% yield crypto savings accounts working out these days? I’m just curious how this worked out for everyone involved.
              i started this thread about blockfi. Customers there still earning their “yield” same as before though rates have come down. Much trouble in this arena

              celsius which was another big player froze withdrawals about a month ago and just filed bankruptcy. While they marketed the product as savings account-like they were doing high risk stuff on the back end with customer funds and investing in illiquid instruments and “defi” stuff. Those customers - many - have likely lost most or all of their funds that were on the platform and if they get anything back it will be a long ways down the road after court proceedings. Wouldn’t surprise me if the head of that company ends up in jail

              voyager was another - id never heard of them but I guess they are a public traded company - same thing. Locked withdrawals and now bankrupt.

              re blockfi there have been rumors of collapse and they were kind of forced to take a private marker bailout to maintain liquidity but no one there has lost any money. yet. Time will tell

              its been kind of a dominoes event. Market downturn. Tide goes out and you see who’s swimming naked type of thing.

              i had significant usdc (stablecoin) on blockfi up until about a month ago. For a time a while back I had stablecoin on celsius but got a bad vibe there. No more funds on any of these platforms. Haven’t had any bitcoin on them, the “yield” on bitcoin has not been anywhere near worth the risk, self custody only.

              ultimately yes it’s a risk reward balance. The title of the thread was clickbait. Much learning along the way.

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              • Originally posted by White.Beard.Doc View Post
                I was always too afraid to invest in crypto. When I asked the basic questions, what is this good for, it seems like it is mostly good for illegal activities. Burdensome to use, easy to lose, and regular currency already has ease of electronic transactions. Yes, it is free of government control, and free of exchange costs, but for how long? Won’t governments need to regulate it once it gets big enough to destroy financial markets?
                re bitcoin you should just try using it. You’ll learn a lot. You can afford it. I’m sure you’ve learned more in medicine by doing rather than reading. Especially when the stuff you’re reading is probably written by more people that haven’t ever used it.

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                • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                  I’m sure the jury is still out, but does this mean the tired, old premise, that risk and return are intimately tethered, still applies in the modern age? …It guess would appear so. Nothing really comes up negative about these experiences on a basic search.
                  Yeah, risk return. But in “crypto” and these “interest accounts” the problem is that the risk level is very opaque. Marketed as bank account like bitcoin nothing of the sort.

                  Particularly with Celsius. It’s pretty crazy the level of stuff they were doing with customer funds, plus they had a totally unnecessary shitcoin token for the platform where customers could earn higher “yield” if they got paid out in CEL token instead of stablecoin or bitcoin or whatever. Well the company held the majority of CEL token and it’s seems pretty likely the ceo was dumping his CEL token like $40M worth all the whole encouraging customers to hold CEL. Likely a fraud case. their ceo I guess must have been pretty charismatic. Their customers are almost cult like.

                  i happen to still think blockfi will probably be ok - they’re in NY state which is pretty anti crypto in general and regulators there are active and IF you believe the things blockfi says they’re not doing nearly as high risk stuff to earn the yield.

                  very much a do your own research thing


                  If you want to find negative reports just go to twitter and search celsius network

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                  • Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                    Yeah, risk return. But in “crypto” and these “interest accounts” the problem is that the risk level is very opaque. Marketed as bank account like bitcoin nothing of the sort.

                    Particularly with Celsius. It’s pretty crazy the level of stuff they were doing with customer funds, plus they had a totally unnecessary shitcoin token for the platform where customers could earn higher “yield” if they got paid out in CEL token instead of stablecoin or bitcoin or whatever. Well the company held the majority of CEL token and it’s seems pretty likely the ceo was dumping his CEL token like $40M worth all the whole encouraging customers to hold CEL. Likely a fraud case. their ceo I guess must have been pretty charismatic. Their customers are almost cult like.

                    i happen to still think blockfi will probably be ok - they’re in NY state which is pretty anti crypto in general and regulators there are active and IF you believe the things blockfi says they’re not doing nearly as high risk stuff to earn the yield.

                    very much a do your own research thing


                    If you want to find negative reports just go to twitter and search celsius network
                    Thanks. I’m not trying to just be an a-hole. I knew some of these companies went belly-up. I googled a little looking for PO’d investors and it really didn’t come up readily. I thought I’d find a bunch of people complaining. Was just wondering if anyone put $50k into this stuff and lost their shirt. It spooked me from the beginning with the crazy yields, so I don’t follow it closely, other than knowing about the crypto crash in general terms. It seemed to be a high risk situation with 9% yields from the start. Very convoluted structuring. Reminds me of 2008.

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                    • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                      Thanks. I’m not trying to just be an a-hole. I knew some of these companies went belly-up. I googled a little looking for PO’d investors and it really didn’t come up readily. I thought I’d find a bunch of people complaining. Was just wondering if anyone put $50k into this stuff and lost their shirt. It spooked me from the beginning with the crazy yields, so I don’t follow it closely, other than knowing about the crypto crash in general terms. It seemed to be a high risk situation with 9% yields from the start. Very convoluted structuring. Reminds me of 2008.
                      twitter is the place to find the reports. But again it’s weird both with celsius and voyager the customer base were really fanboys. Defending mashinsky the celsius ceo long after it became clear customers were gonna lose their stuff.

                      the chapter 11 bankruptcy filing is interesting. Because there would have been alternative type of filing like some sort of broker dealer filing that would pay customers before equity holders or creditors. Something like that. But by going the chapter 11 route celsius is trying to save their own ****************** and the backers instead of putting customers first. At least that’s my rudimentary understanding of what I’ve read.

                      it will also be interesting to see how much of their assets that are out on these “decentralized” platforms get clawed back. Most of “defi” is a facade.

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                      • Originally posted by Tim View Post

                        Kind of like humble bragging about your EX-wife.
                        She was crazy-hot, wasn’t she? Sadly, she trashed my apartment/life, and ran off with the lead singer of a band, and then OD’d. Totally unforeseeable.

                        (ps-I don’t have an ex-wife, but the rest is unfortunately true. She was never boring).

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                        • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
                          She was crazy-hot, wasn’t she? Sadly, she trashed my apartment/life, and ran off with the lead singer of a band, and then OD’d. Totally unforeseeable.
                          (ps-I don’t have an ex-wife, but the rest is unfortunately true. She was never boring).
                          https://www.lifehack.org/articles/co...you-marry.html
                          Let's not blame it on the females, you were just a boy at heart.
                          https://www.lifehack.org/articles/co...you-marry.html

                          Never introduce dating partners to the parents if in doubt. Parents don't value "fun".
                          Parent, avoid direct opinions. It is going directly back to the object of affection.

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                          • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
                            Here’s a serious question…. How are these 8-10% yield crypto savings accounts working out these days? I’m just curious how this worked out for everyone involved.
                            Gemini is doing okay, but not doling out 9% anymore, but something like 6% I think.

                            I had a large chunk in there that I transferred out a few months back when I started seeing contagion during the entire crypto space.

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                            • Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

                              Gemini is doing okay, but not doling out 9% anymore, but something like 6% I think.

                              I had a large chunk in there that I transferred out a few months back when I started seeing contagion during the entire crypto space.
                              I heard they were focusing on their band touring:

                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hbJy-ZPYvt8
                              Winklevoss twins sing 'Don't Stop Believin'

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                              • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                                Thanks. I’m not trying to just be an a-hole. I knew some of these companies went belly-up. I googled a little looking for PO’d investors and it really didn’t come up readily. I thought I’d find a bunch of people complaining. Was just wondering if anyone put $50k into this stuff and lost their shirt. It spooked me from the beginning with the crazy yields, so I don’t follow it closely, other than knowing about the crypto crash in general terms. It seemed to be a high risk situation with 9% yields from the start. Very convoluted structuring. Reminds me of 2008.
                                This story is ending as expected. A lot of people losing their money. David Stein talked about in this week's Money for the Rest of Us podcast. He gave specific examples of people losing money, including himself. His $500 at Voyager was cut to $250, and now he is in line with other creditors for whatever scraps are left after bankruptcy. It turns out that lending and offering 9% "guaranteed" is a workable business model so long as the price of crypto is rising. But with crypto falling, look out below.

                                Bonus content (below): "I just wake up and cry..."
                                https://www.marketwatch.com/story/i-...ms-11657803496

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