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  • Originally posted by Lordosis View Post

    There are worse places to pull things from

    Also when you guys use the term DCA do you actually have a chunk of money sitting on the sidelines that you are putting in at a specific interval or are you just investing as you get new money like with each paycheck?
    No DCA for me - I follow a simple strategy: buy on a dip, sell on a pump.

    So far, so good. Speculating...I mean investing is easy this way.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by NapoleanDynamite View Post

      Mining is a very interesting business. They search hard for cheap electricity and can move when necessary. But at this point it is mostly very large companies doing the majority of mining because it is so competitive. I have looked at it and ROI over most 3 years periods from investing in the correct miner setup has historically ranged from 150-200% returns compared to just buying and holding bitcoins during a good 3 year period. In other words, I could buy 7 bitcoins right now with $210,000. Invest the same amount in the right miner rig/setup/group and you could probably end up with somewhere between 10-15 bitcoins at the end of 36 months. Miner technology (ASICS) typically needs to be updated about every 3 years which is why I chose 3 years.

      Now...the price of bitcoin is so volatile that this could mean an increase or decrease in your dollar value. In most 3 year periods that same $210,000 invested in the above example might be worth somewhere between $105,000 and $750,000 over an average time frame given BTC history. Electricity costs and ASIC costs are the main costs of this investment and the ASICS are a depreciating asset.

      Electricity is the biggest problem. Trying to pull electricity from the peak grid hours in California would be cost prohibitive. However, harvesting hydroelectric/nuclear/gas flare/or yes COAL electricity at very cheap prices, at off peak hours when it is typically wasted, allows one to make a very good profit.

      May sound crazy, but all of this is going on. In huge volumes.
      I clearly forgot to mention using Geothermal Energy from a Volcano as a source for bitcoin mining.(see below) I make a lot of predictions, but even I would not have had Volcano propelled Bitcoin mining on my Bitcoin Bingo Card for 2021....However, adopting bitcoin as a currency was coming from somewhere, at some time. This could entirely change the taxation prospects for bitcoin as it is now considered a recognized currency. I hope you all understand Game theory.

      https://www.coindesk.com/volcano-pow...in-el-salvador

      Comment


      • Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador.

        https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin...-legal-tender/

        It will be fascinating to see over the next few years if more countries adopt the Bitcoin standard.


        Comment


        • Originally posted by Outdoors View Post
          Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador.

          https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin...-legal-tender/

          It will be fascinating to see over the next few years if more countries adopt the Bitcoin standard.

          This isn't really a pro or good for bitcoin. It's not really a well functioning country

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Panscan View Post

            This isn't really a pro or good for bitcoin. It's not really a well functioning country
            Disagree. Read about the “Bitcoin Beach” in El Zonte. It’s a model for how Bitcoin can empower the poor.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Panscan View Post

              This isn't really a pro or good for bitcoin. It's not really a well functioning country
              Many crypto coins are trying to breakthrough by helping undeveloped countries have better access to a form of banking and financial services. There's a huge market there. I doubt many people in Burundi have access to traditional financial services that we take for granted on a daily basis.

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              • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                Many crypto coins are trying to breakthrough by helping undeveloped countries have better access to a form of banking and financial services. There's a huge market there. I doubt many people in Burundi have access to traditional financial services that we take for granted on a daily basis.
                Have you actually transacted on the networks? I don’t really buy crypto helping in this regard. Having a bank account is miles more simple than transferring crypto. The fees associated with crypto are gigantic, if it is used for those less fortunate I am quite sure they will be taken advantage of. A situation where you may have to pay 400 bucks to make a transaction which could fail doesn’t sound very good for someone without money.

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                • IMO the most staunch supports of btc and crypto are those that just own the coins and haven’t actually tried using them, like sending them across network, different l2 services , experienced the fees. Once you do that the shine wears off quickly. The services simply don’t work well. People compare it to a bank account but a bank account doesn’t have fees often equal to or greater than the amount being transacted and doesn’t require you to juice it if you want your transaction done in appropriate time. You can also cancel bank account transfers even if they’ve started. The bank transfer will not charge you hundreds of dollars of fees even if it fails.

                  they simply don’t work well , it’s always waiting for the next thing. Eth 2.0 will fix everything the eth people claim. We will see , right now eth network doesn’t work.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Panscan View Post

                    Have you actually transacted on the networks? I don’t really buy crypto helping in this regard. Having a bank account is miles more simple than transferring crypto. The fees associated with crypto are gigantic, if it is used for those less fortunate I am quite sure they will be taken advantage of. A situation where you may have to pay 400 bucks to make a transaction which could fail doesn’t sound very good for someone without money.
                    I buy and hold. There are many coins that are actively working on minimizing fees. I don't think having a bank account is miles easier than what some of these coins are trying to accomplish considering many people in undeveloped areas don't have access to banking.

                    Comment


                    • They don't have access to running water, electricity or computers either. A central place that stores their money seems easier to establish to me than getting them electricity and cell phones/computers needed for them to have crypto.

                      If these people wanted to help Africa they would get them clean water and electricity. They just want to make money off poor people to be frank. No human needs cryptocurrency to survive. All humans need clean water.

                      To me, lots of the people who think bitcoin and other crypto works are people who own the coins and see price goes up = good, system works. But the systems don't work if you actually use them. I have gone full cycle, thought it was dumb, got involved early this year, bought some stuff, prices went up, made some money, read about it, using eth network for probably 50+ transactions, L2 solutions, exchanged it for random crap coins to speculate and see how the mechanics work and am now back to it again being nearly useless and own 0 crypto. They simply don't work well. Everyone says " tomorrow it will work well." BTC is 10 years old, it's not going to significantly change. At some point the speculation gleam will wear off. The stuff you see in crypto world is straight predatory and if the same tactics were used in the conventional equities market it would be front page on every newspaper in the world and people would be before all the fancy alphabet soup agencies in court.

                      The amount of leverage? Where else can you get 100x leverage? Where else do you have these kinds of fees? Where else do you have no recourse is something is screwed up?

                      But price goes up so crypto is good

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by chucki View Post

                        Disagree. Read about the “Bitcoin Beach” in El Zonte. It’s a model for how Bitcoin can empower the poor.
                        Disagree about what? El Salvador is an extremely poor corrupt country, its not a model for anything other than crime. Its not what you want to point to as proof of life and an example of your stuff working.

                        I disagree slightly with Panscan in that there is enough money in the tech crowd this whole thing may stay afloat just from them.
                        Last edited by Zaphod; 06-10-2021, 06:47 AM.

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                        • I have been going to the same barbershop for many years now. Yesterday was the first time in all of those years that I have ever heard a discussion of financial markets. Interestingly enough, every barber and college-aged kid getting a fade was talking up how much they're making in crypto. One guy wearing a bitcoin t shirt, I kid you not, supposedly owns 12 bitcoin and refuses to sell any of it. Diamond hands is the motto. My barber was looking forward to repeating his “easy” tactic of buying the dips and selling the peaks. He’s pulling in an “easy five figures a month.” A college student has been using most of his living expenses student aid to invest in bitcoin and doge. For those of you that are heavily invested in crypto, does this picture seriously not worry you? Does this not seem like a bubble to you?

                          “If shoe shine boys are giving stock tips, it’s time to get out of the market.”

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Panscan View Post
                            They don't have access to running water, electricity or computers either. A central place that stores their money seems easier to establish to me than getting them electricity and cell phones/computers needed for them to have crypto.

                            If these people wanted to help Africa they would get them clean water and electricity. They just want to make money off poor people to be frank. No human needs cryptocurrency to survive. All humans need clean water.

                            To me, lots of the people who think bitcoin and other crypto works are people who own the coins and see price goes up = good, system works. But the systems don't work if you actually use them. I have gone full cycle, thought it was dumb, got involved early this year, bought some stuff, prices went up, made some money, read about it, using eth network for probably 50+ transactions, L2 solutions, exchanged it for random crap coins to speculate and see how the mechanics work and am now back to it again being nearly useless and own 0 crypto. They simply don't work well. Everyone says " tomorrow it will work well." BTC is 10 years old, it's not going to significantly change. At some point the speculation gleam will wear off. The stuff you see in crypto world is straight predatory and if the same tactics were used in the conventional equities market it would be front page on every newspaper in the world and people would be before all the fancy alphabet soup agencies in court.

                            The amount of leverage? Where else can you get 100x leverage? Where else do you have these kinds of fees? Where else do you have no recourse is something is screwed up?

                            But price goes up so crypto is good
                            How do you think we can get people in Africa clean water? Why do you think the people in Africa, South America, Central America, and Asia do not have clean water and electricity in 2021? What has happened over the course of history that has created this enormous wealth gap in the world?

                            We agree on one thing, all humans need clean water. Dependable and reliable electricity sure is helpful too.

                            I disagree with you on how that is achieved. To me, this is achieved by allowing a free and open system to the hardest money the world has ever seen. This does not happen quickly though.

                            It is clear to me that you went down the "crytpo" rabbit hole for a short ride. That's unfortunate, but somewhat unavoidable. I'm glad you made some money. Good for you.

                            Unfortunately it sounds like you did not go deep enough in to the Bitcoin rabbit hole. There is a good reason I have avoided discussing other cryptocurrencies. Like you, I have found that >99% of them are scams and just ways for people to make money. They don't create anything new that doesn't already exist in a cheaper form or provide any real value to humanity.

                            I strongly disagree with the conclusion you have made about Bitcoin though. It does provide significant value to humanity. Long term, it actually will help bring water and electricity to Africa, South America, Asia, or whatever other locations in the world embrace it. Those that don't embrace it will be left behind. It is not a short one though. You and I will never see the end of this story, but our great grandchildren may.

                            There will still be rich and poor. But Bitcoin helps prevent the wealthy from continuing to rob from the poor. If you follow this to it's logical conclusion it ends in decreasing the wealth gap between rich and poor which has widened for the past 50 years.

                            To say this in a very simple and quick manner. Dig deeper into Bitcoin and stop $hitcoining.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Panscan View Post
                              They don't have access to running water, electricity or computers either. A central place that stores their money seems easier to establish to me than getting them electricity and cell phones/computers needed for them to have crypto.

                              If these people wanted to help Africa they would get them clean water and electricity. They just want to make money off poor people to be frank. No human needs cryptocurrency to survive. All humans need clean water.
                              As with many things in life, multiple projects can be undertaken at once. Just like malaria treatment/prevention, HIV treatment/prevention, providing access to basic medical care, building shelters, supporting education can all happen at the same time as those who work on providing access to clean water.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Outdoors View Post
                                Bitcoin is legal tender in El Salvador.

                                https://www.cbsnews.com/news/bitcoin...-legal-tender/

                                It will be fascinating to see over the next few years if more countries adopt the Bitcoin standard.

                                I'm pretty sure it's a bad look when a country that is best known throughout the world as a hotbed for drug and sex trafficking, violence, and crime makes legal a currency that is trying to shed its history of being used for aforementioned crimes. Silk Road, anyone? lol

                                But as long as the bitcoin number goes up in value, who gives a f, amirite?

                                Comment

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