Bitcoin is still early

[Jantoven]

there are arbitrage opportunities in either scenario. Discount or premium vs NAV. So it is likely to trend back. Grayscales parent has already announced intention to buyback shares.

Thanks. I would expect the discount to be reduced as BTC pumps, at least for now, given there still aren't many (any?) options for holding in a Roth IRA, outside of OBTC which is trading at a huge premium currently.

[jacoavlu]

https://twitter.com/coinbeastmedia/status/1370854758001545220?s=21

~ $1.2B value moved for a fee of about $50. No third party necessary.

[Zaphod]

huh

They were robbing the company of their bearer bonds, bearer bonds used to be a thing and are the plot of many heist type films and such, quite famously Die Hard for this reason. Just an interesting/funny aside.

[Zaphod]

I think GBTC won't perform as well as BTC itself moving forward, since new competitors are coming onto the market (ETFs). Why hold GBTC (with a 2% management fee) and a possible premium if you can instead hold an ETF?

That said, GBTC should still rise along with BTC, but just not to the same degree as more options become available. Grayscale should probably consider converting GBTC to an ETF, if it is able to do so.

As long as it has a discount to actual btc price its an extremely compelling buy, especially if its over management fees. All you're looking to do in this situation is waiting the discount to close.

[Jantoven]

As long as it has a discount to actual btc price its an extremely compelling buy, especially if its over management fees. All you're looking to do in this situation is waiting the discount to close.

Agreed. I think it's a compelling option to hold in a Roth IRA, especially if you are bullish on the future price of what BTC will be one day.

[jacoavlu]

Greater fool theory....

It never ends well.

The funny thing is, even the people who "know" about crypto can't explain it - and the definitely can't explain its supply/creation. It is much easier to explain timeshares or SpaceX profitability than it is to outline Bitcoin. That tells you all you need to know.

peter schiff is that you?

I think you posted the same thing when 1 btc was $20k. I was a hater not that long before then also.

[jacoavlu]

Three words: greater fool theory.

...BTC hypers need to pimp it to entice buyers and keep price up. It has no real value, no control of its supply/creation, and it is "the answer" to a problem solved long ago. The only value of it is in that there will be future adopters and investors. Remember tech stock IPOs? There were seminars and folks giving out "insider tips" left and right... usually for ones they owned or were paid to promote.

If you want to bet on some digital money nerds overthrowing "the system" and getting themselves rich in the process, try Bitcoin.
If you want to bet on the guys with the guns and trust them blindly, buy stocks and bonds.
...If you know the guys with the guns will always win but you need to hedge all the inflation that they create, get stocks and buy/sell some gold also. Coincidentally, that is what they do themselves, and fake digital money has no role in it. Central banks buy gold when they don't want too much gold in the hands of speculators that buy it. Central banks sell gold when they don't want too much of their currency in the hands of speculators that sell it. Gold is the one thing you can't print, create in a lab, etc. Gold is basically a pile of money that can exchange for any world currency (doesn't matter if one currency fails or deflates... you can use it as any other one instead). Oh, and it naturally keeps up with inflation due to its controlled supply.

found it. Bitcoin was $16.7k. Gold was $1888.

not sure what kind of inflation gold is supposed to keep up with.

[billy]

They were robbing the company of their bearer bonds, bearer bonds used to be a thing and are the plot of many heist type films and such, quite famously Die Hard for this reason. Just an interesting/funny aside.

And in die hard 3 they were stealing gold, werent they?

[G]

found it. Bitcoin was $16.7k. Gold was $1888.

not sure what kind of inflation gold is supposed to keep up with.

just as I am intrigued about bitcoin pricing, so I am with gold pricing...back in the stone age, I would have confidently picked "up, a lot" on my econ test. I mean, what are we up to, $6T in brand new government spending?

[jacoavlu]

just as I am intrigued about bitcoin pricing, so I am with gold pricing...back in the stone age, I would have confidently picked "up, a lot" on my econ test. I mean, what are we up to, $6T in brand new government spending?

if I knew how to make a gif this is where I would post one from the I drink your milkshake scene in there will be blood

bitcoin is better harder money than gold. That’s the outline

[Jantoven]

if I knew how to make a gif this is where I would post one from the I drink your milkshake scene in there will be blood

bitcoin is better harder money than gold. That’s the outline

jacoavlu , I think since thread has started but 5 months ago, bitcoin has increased by about 500% in price.

There are lots of doubters, which is a good sign to me. If everyone was rushing to buy, it would suggest that the bubble is about to pop.

The fact that companies (such as Tesla) are purchasing significant amounts, and that cities like Miami are looking into paying people in bitcoin, suggests to me that perhaps there is a decent amount of legitimacy to this, which is why, personally, I am willing to "gamble" with a small percentage of my portfolio. If this wildly succeeds, like some are predicting (I see projections anywhere from 400k per BTC to 1mil per BTC by the end of the decade), then I'd regret not participating.

[billy]

jacoavlu , I think since thread has started but 5 months ago, bitcoin has increased by about 500% in price.

There are lots of doubters, which is a good sign to me. If everyone was rushing to buy, it would suggest that the bubble is about to pop.

The fact that companies (such as Tesla) are purchasing significant amounts, and that cities like Miami are looking into paying people in bitcoin, suggests to me that perhaps there is a decent amount of legitimacy to this, which is why, personally, I am willing to "gamble" with a small percentage of my portfolio. If this wildly succeeds, like some are predicting (I see projections anywhere from 400k per BTC to 1mil per BTC by the end of the decade), then I'd regret not participating.

WCI forum users are a select minority of physicians and the general public at large. Not arguing if bitcoin is in a bubble or not, but your thought process is entirely wrong- out of the general public, more are rushing to buy, or at least wanting to- people who know nothing about economics/stocks/finances want it, which is why some of us have suggested its bubbly before. Some here have suggested that is more of a reason to buy (legitimacy, gaining traction), which is fine. I'm not suggesting the endpoint (bubble or not), just merely pointing out this forum is not a good representation of the mass general public.

[Outdoors]

Thanks for the thoughts/input above on keeping in the Roth IRA. I figured I would just keep hodling in GBTC, but wanted to make sure I wasn't missing any other opportunities. I paid about a 5-10% premium when I bought GBTC, and even at a discount now, it's still the largest profit I've ever seen in my portfolio.

There's still so many people that are anti-crypto it's fascinating. I agree that we're still early. I think the next major moves will be when one of the FAANGM companies buys and when a Central Bank of some country announces they're keeping bitcoin as a reserve asset.

[Jantoven]

WCI forum users are a select minority of physicians and the general public at large. Not arguing if bitcoin is in a bubble or not, but your thought process is entirely wrong- out of the general public, more are rushing to buy, or at least wanting to- people who know nothing about economics/stocks/finances want it, which is why some of us have suggested its bubbly before. Some here have suggested that is more of a reason to buy (legitimacy, gaining traction), which is fine. I'm not suggesting the endpoint (bubble or not), just merely pointing out this forum is not a good representation of the mass general public.

Sorry, I should clarify. I just meant in general, as I interact with others, not necessarily just in this forum. There are certainly "believers" out there, but this seems different than in 2017. In 2017, all the people around me were talking about it non-stop, asking how to buy, etc. Right now, I don't really hear anyone talking about it, outside of an occasional "oh I heard bitcoin hit an all-time high on the news," or something in passing like that.

[G]

jacoavlu , I think since thread has started but 5 months ago, bitcoin has increased by about 500% in price.

There are lots of doubters, which is a good sign to me. If everyone was rushing to buy, it would suggest that the bubble is about to pop.

The fact that companies (such as Tesla) are purchasing significant amounts, and that cities like Miami are looking into paying people in bitcoin, suggests to me that perhaps there is a decent amount of legitimacy to this, which is why, personally, I am willing to "gamble" with a small percentage of my portfolio. If this wildly succeeds, like some are predicting (I see projections anywhere from 400k per BTC to 1mil per BTC by the end of the decade), then I'd regret not participating.

Fascinating.