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  • Originally posted by docnews View Post
    I believe crypto has value but dang $60k BTC seems bubbly! I'm only a half decade into my career and I'm primarily a stock indexer so my few percent to crypto has become substantial! Anyone rebalancing? My handful of BTC is currently about 20% my net worth.
    Why is it bubbly ?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by docnews View Post
      I believe crypto has value but dang $60k BTC seems bubbly! I'm only a half decade into my career and I'm primarily a stock indexer so my few percent to crypto has become substantial! Anyone rebalancing? My handful of BTC is currently about 20% my net worth.
      What’s your goal with investing/speculating into btc? I’m ok with buying in at 1% of my net worth. I’m ok with it going to 5% but not more than that so I’d rebalance at that point.

      If it’s pure speculation and there’s no other reason why you bought it, can just hold it until it goes to whatever moon value works for you.

      Comment


      • Any thoughts on the premium/discount for GBTC and any alternatives? A large portion of my net worth is held in Grayscale's trusts inside my Roth IRA. My goal is to HODL these for many years in the Roth.

        It's been disappointing to see that even though Bitcoin spiked this past week, GBTC is trading at a discount below the net asset value of it's Bitcoin. I hate to miss out on half the profits while also paying a 2% AUM fee to Grayscale.

        Are there any better alternatives people are HODLing inside their Roth IRA, or should I just stick with GBTC?

        ​​​​​I've tried looking into the 3 new Canadian ETFs, but haven't found much good data on the discount/premium.
        ​​​​​​

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Brains428 View Post
          Assuming it follows the 4 year cycle, BTC isn't that frothy. All that said, if it's back down to 45k by Monday, I wouldn't be surprised
          I think the key consideration is that even those who bought at the worst possible time in 2017 and bought it for 19k, as long as they didn't sell, have now tripled their investments in less than 4 years time.

          I only recently got into BTC, but it seems that given the large-scale adoption of it that we are now seeing, it would be wise to buy and hold indefinitely.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Outdoors View Post
            Any thoughts on the premium/discount for GBTC and any alternatives? A large portion of my net worth is held in Grayscale's trusts inside my Roth IRA. My goal is to HODL these for many years in the Roth.

            It's been disappointing to see that even though Bitcoin spiked this past week, GBTC is trading at a discount below the net asset value of it's Bitcoin. I hate to miss out on half the profits while also paying a 2% AUM fee to Grayscale.

            Are there any better alternatives people are HODLing inside their Roth IRA, or should I just stick with GBTC?

            ​​​​​I've tried looking into the 3 new Canadian ETFs, but haven't found much good data on the discount/premium.
            ​​​​​​
            I think GBTC won't perform as well as BTC itself moving forward, since new competitors are coming onto the market (ETFs). Why hold GBTC (with a 2% management fee) and a possible premium if you can instead hold an ETF?

            That said, GBTC should still rise along with BTC, but just not to the same degree as more options become available. Grayscale should probably consider converting GBTC to an ETF, if it is able to do so.

            Comment


            • I agree that ideally I'd own an ETF. But my question is: is there a better alternative than GBTC today for me, average retail investor, to own Bitcoin in my U.S. Roth IRA with Fidelity? I currently have most of my Roth money in GBTC.

              The Canadian Bitcoin ETFs are not available to US retail investors on Fidelity as far as I'm aware.

              Fidelity's direct Bitcoin services are only available to institutional clients right now, not retail.

              That leaves either sticking with GBTC (currently trading at a discount), or Osprey's OBTC (currently trading at a premium). I'd be silly to sell GBTC right now to buy Osprey at a premium, even if they do have a lower fee structure.

              I wanted to see if any other users have experience with Bitcoin in their Roth IRA and is there any better alternative TODAY that I'm not aware of? Or some way to buy into the Canadian ETFs? I figure I might just have to wait a few months until the US approves a real Bitcoin ETF.

              Any thoughts NapoleanDynamite ?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                The analogy to gold works in some ways because bitcoin like gold is a bearer asset, in that if you hold it, it's yours. Unlike a bond, or stock in a company. Bitcoin also shares with gold the monetary properties of being divisible, durable, portable, recognizable, and scarce.

                T
                This is incorrect and is the whole premise behind the plot of Die Hard. Watch movie to fill in these critical gaps.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Panscan View Post
                  Forever is relevant. 2000 years? I have no idea. 20 years? I feel much more confident.
                  Yup, important point. Investing horizons are short.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Zaphod View Post

                    This is incorrect and is the whole premise behind the plot of Die Hard. Watch movie to fill in these critical gaps.
                    huh

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Outdoors View Post
                      I agree that ideally I'd own an ETF. But my question is: is there a better alternative than GBTC today for me, average retail investor, to own Bitcoin in my U.S. Roth IRA with Fidelity? I currently have most of my Roth money in GBTC.

                      The Canadian Bitcoin ETFs are not available to US retail investors on Fidelity as far as I'm aware.

                      Fidelity's direct Bitcoin services are only available to institutional clients right now, not retail.

                      That leaves either sticking with GBTC (currently trading at a discount), or Osprey's OBTC (currently trading at a premium). I'd be silly to sell GBTC right now to buy Osprey at a premium, even if they do have a lower fee structure.

                      I wanted to see if any other users have experience with Bitcoin in their Roth IRA and is there any better alternative TODAY that I'm not aware of? Or some way to buy into the Canadian ETFs? I figure I might just have to wait a few months until the US approves a real Bitcoin ETF.

                      Any thoughts NapoleanDynamite ?
                      self directed IRA is an option. Probably not worth the hassle.

                      not as cheap or easy as similar setup but with self directed 401k.

                      my opinion GBTC is fine for what you’re doing. People think bc it’s trading at a discount for a minute and the sky is falling.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                        self directed IRA is an option. Probably not worth the hassle.

                        not as cheap or easy as similar setup but with self directed 401k.

                        my opinion GBTC is fine for what you’re doing. People think bc it’s trading at a discount for a minute and the sky is falling.
                        Historically, I think when it has traded at a discount, it later catches up and trades at a significant premium. I don't think we'll see that as other options become available, but I also don't think the discount will continue to widen during a bull market.

                        And, of course, the advantage of GBTC is you can perhaps buy/sell around the halving cycles better, since it's not a taxable event.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Panscan View Post

                          Why is it bubbly ?
                          I believe people are buying in that don't understand it nor truly believing it has long-term value. If the price dips a bit, these FOMOers jump ship quick.

                          I believe it has value and have held since learning about it during the 2017 year end run-up and buying my few after the 2018 drop.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Nysoz View Post

                            What’s your goal with investing/speculating into btc? I’m ok with buying in at 1% of my net worth. I’m ok with it going to 5% but not more than that so I’d rebalance at that point.

                            If it’s pure speculation and there’s no other reason why you bought it, can just hold it until it goes to whatever moon value works for you.
                            I actually believe it has value but extreme volatility mainly due to FOMOers who don't think it has value and who are playing speculative games.

                            I had 5% go to 20% in 2 months. But it's not easy to rebalance without significant tax hit since I own it outside retirement accounts.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Jantoven View Post

                              Historically, I think when it has traded at a discount, it later catches up and trades at a significant premium. I don't think we'll see that as other options become available, but I also don't think the discount will continue to widen during a bull market.

                              And, of course, the advantage of GBTC is you can perhaps buy/sell around the halving cycles better, since it's not a taxable event.
                              there are arbitrage opportunities in either scenario. Discount or premium vs NAV. So it is likely to trend back. Grayscales parent has already announced intention to buyback shares.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by docnews View Post

                                I believe people are buying in that don't understand it nor truly believing it has long-term value. If the price dips a bit, these FOMOers jump ship quick.
                                people doing real on chain analysis feel the data shows the opposite. There is actually strong support at these recent price levels. Available supply at exchanges is decreasing which suggests investors are buying to hold long term. Speculators and traders more often hold coins at exchange

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