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  • Originally posted by formerly_cn View Post
    I am not so sure abotu corporate buying of BTC. I mean look at MSTR price action. It is insane, just cuz they have BTC asset on their books. Ok. Well and good, except BTC is volatile and can go through a period of decline/crash. So all that debt they took to buy into BTC...what? They'd finance through their cashflow...?

    I got curious and looked at Microstrategy last 5 year balance sheet/income statement. Their EBIDTA has sucked and shrinking. While I am sure M. Saylor is a smart guy, this seems like a business that has seen better days and in order to 'spark' or help right the ship, the bet went BTC. It may work out, but the bidding up of stock is insane and no less crazp than GME. The traders and option players heaven, but the whole market is frothy and looking like Trader paradise.

    My 2 cents.
    Bingo. Chart curtesy of Michael Batnick. Somebody called him a genius earlier. This chart doesn't look like the company of a genius. This is a Hail Mary to try to become relevant.

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    • Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post

      their cost basis was 35K.
      I know. 11 months ago they could have bought it for $5k, or $3K a couple of years ago. It just seems like an odd time to back up the cyber truck.

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      • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

        I know. 11 months ago they could have bought it for $5k, or $3K a couple of years ago. It just seems like an odd time to back up the cyber truck.
        but you never know when it's high or low at the time.

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        • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

          Bingo. Chart curtesy of Michael Batnick. Somebody called him a genius earlier. This chart doesn't look like the company of a genius. This is a Hail Mary to try to become relevant.

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          Very much agree with this. ALSO, more importantly from a corporate structure/public markets macro philosophy standpoint. Why would i invest in a company that literally just invests in something I could do on my own? How does that create value for shareholders? Is there some tax benefit I miss? I guess hype is a tangible benefit (as long as it works)?

          Why are they not using that money to buy back shares which is tax efficient and most importantly returns the $$ back to me, the shareholder. It really is dumb from a pure shareholder rights standpoint. I would be very not happy if I had votes in the company - not because I hate crypto/bitcoin, but because it's not corporate shareholder friendly.

          Ten bucks says an activist hedge fund gets a board seat and litigates this point in the coming years (I wouldn't be surprised if someone already is!)

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          • When other brand name/Fortune 500 companies soon announce that they have been accumulating it on their balance sheet, Musk will come out looking very smart/early adopter. Also, hodling does have an effect on the price. It's leading to a supply shock and run up of the prices. Demand is violently outstripping supply.

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            • Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post

              but you never know when it's high or low at the time.
              There apparently was a reddit leaker claiming to be a TSLA insider who announced through a post back in December or something that TSLA was buying bitcoin. So as stated, it's been announced now, but they've presumably been doing it for a while.

              Again as was also stated, I kinda see TSLAs play as simply monetizing Musk's ability to move the market simply with a tweet - THAT is adding shareholder value. MicroStrategy dude, idk if he's got that.

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              • Originally posted by Zaphod View Post

                Its also just amazingly about as 180 degrees away from teslas stated mission as it can get. Bitcoin uses more energy than some countries, for no real explicit benefit to humanity. Now, shareholders have had zero issues looking past things before so we'll have to see what happens, but also they bought with it really high and it does present a huge downside accounting wise as until its sold it can only be marked down, not up although analysts will value it properly.
                This comment on Bitcoin energy use is a very bad take. Had you watched the video you would understand why...fast forward to the 25 minute mark if you can't watch the entire hour of video. But here is a short read describing why this opinion is incorrect if you prefer that mode of learning.
                https://www.coindesk.com/what-bloomb...mate-footprint

                It is amazing to me how Tesla's purchase has brought out every FUD/bad argument against Bitcoin. The past 36 hours have been a real whirl wind. I can not keep up with correcting all of the misinformation on here at this point. I hope those of you that have wanted to learn have moved forward with your financial education.

                So I will leave you with this thought. If you own any part of the S/P 500 in your retirement portfolio, you now own Bitcoin. Whether you want to or not. This includes WCI.

                Good luck my friends.

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                • Originally posted by NapoleanDynamite View Post
                  The past 36 hours have been a real whirl wind. I can not keep up with correcting all of the misinformation on here at this point.

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                  • Originally posted by NapoleanDynamite View Post

                    This comment on Bitcoin energy use is a very bad take. Had you watched the video you would understand why...fast forward to the 25 minute mark if you can't watch the entire hour of video. But here is a short read describing why this opinion is incorrect if you prefer that mode of learning.
                    https://www.coindesk.com/what-bloomb...mate-footprint

                    It is amazing to me how Tesla's purchase has brought out every FUD/bad argument against Bitcoin. The past 36 hours have been a real whirl wind. I can not keep up with correcting all of the misinformation on here at this point. I hope those of you that have wanted to learn have moved forward with your financial education.

                    So I will leave you with this thought. If you own any part of the S/P 500 in your retirement portfolio, you now own Bitcoin. Whether you want to or not. This includes WCI.

                    Good luck my friends.
                    Bitcoin did not require a large amount of energy to produce and is using a ton isnt it? Musks goal is to do the opposite of course. Has jack to do with anything other than musk being diametrically opposed in perception to his stated companies goals. I own crypto, but I only care if it goes up in price, and have no company goals in opposition to that.

                    The linked article was dumb and comparing visa to bitcoin which doesnt make any sense, why would that matter.

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                    • NapoleanDynamite re: your last thought: Those of us who lean more on the boglehead/WCI view of bitcoin don't mind holding it as part of the sp500 or part of vtsax, nor do we mind holding any of the other 3000 companies (and their holdings) included in the index- that's the point of indexing. But I'd still tell anyone not to allocate any more than play money to any one speculative stock or crypto. Yes you miss out on the huge gains if it wins. You also miss out on losses you cant afford if it loses. But different strokes... again congrats on getting in on the crypto/BTC before its current rise. It does not mean its guaranteed to continue to rise indefinitely though.

                      Intrigued by Musk/tesla and Bitcoin- wasn't he promoting dogecoin earlier? Is he buying both and in a month we'll hear about a huge dogecoin buy?

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                      • Originally posted by CordMcNally View Post

                        Bingo. Chart curtesy of Michael Batnick. Somebody called him a genius earlier. This chart doesn't look like the company of a genius. This is a Hail Mary to try to become relevant.

                        Click image for larger version

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                        I said he looks like a genius, but time will tell.

                        Also, this insane parabolic run on MSTR is perfect for short-term trading. OTM options are incredibly lucrative, even with current IV and high share price. I'm taking about multibaggers overnight. Really insane to be a part of, I've been taking advantage and making bank.

                        This is what it must have been like during the dot-com bubble. I was too young to take part, but I'm taking full advantage of the current one!

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                        • Originally posted by fatlittlepig View Post

                          but you never know when it's high or low at the time.
                          But I think you do know. When Bitcoin 1st soared to $20k every amateur was jumping in at the top. 1st year attendings were asking me about it everyday at work.

                          If it was a great idea at $20k, it was an absolute excellent idea later, when it crashed after that to $3k. Of course those same people are wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole at that point. That’s when they should have been loading up.

                          Now that it is $35-45K, and all over the news again, the same people want in at the top, again. It’s the classic mistake of your feelings telling you to do the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

                          But it’s a fun ride to watch (from down here).

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                          • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post

                            But I think you do know. When Bitcoin 1st soared to $20k every amateur was jumping in at the top. 1st year attendings were asking me about it everyday at work.

                            If it was a great idea at $20k, it was an absolute excellent idea later, when it crashed after that to $3k. Of course those same people are wouldn’t touch it with a 10 foot pole at that point. That’s when they should have been loading up.

                            Now that it is $35-45K, and all over the news again, the same people want in at the top, again. It’s the classic mistake of your feelings telling you to do the exact opposite of what you should be doing.

                            But it’s a fun ride to watch (from down here).
                            well sure but who is to say it isn't 200k in 5 years? The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago, the second best time is today.

                            I don't really understand what conclusion you're trying to make. No one knows with a crystal ball that 47k is bitcoin's ceiling.

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                            • 30-75% of energy being used to mine BTC is renewable. It is generally being mined in places with excess, cheap energy. BTC aims to disrupt gold which would be excellent as gold mining uses tremendously more energy than BTC and happens to be very physically damaging to the planet. It makes sense for Tesla.

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                              • Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

                                It's not.
                                But what if you buy within a Roth IRA - you could capture the gains of BTC without being taxed. So while it may not be quite as good as buying BTC directly, if you can hold it in the Roth IRA, avoiding taxes seems like it would confer an advantage - right?

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