Bitcoin is still early

[StarTrekDoc]

Using my gold bullion analogy still.

Exchanges.
Why would I give my gold to another person to hold? The exchanges do seem to be reliable folk like banks with safety deposit boxes. More like flea markets that glow brightly for a period of time and disappear. Not a place I would.entrust.my gold.

Transactions.
It also appears to have some ability to transact directly without need of the exchanges. So when I want to chip away my gold, I proceed with that methat.

So why the need for the exchanges aside the need to swap quickly and rely on that swap meet mediator to hold onto your coin the whole time?

[jacoavlu]

Using my gold bullion analogy still.

Exchanges.
Why would I give my gold to another person to hold? The exchanges do seem to be reliable folk like banks with safety deposit boxes. More like flea markets that glow brightly for a period of time and disappear. Not a place I would.entrust.my gold.

Transactions.
It also appears to have some ability to transact directly without need of the exchanges. So when I want to chip away my gold, I proceed with that methat.

So why the need for the exchanges aside the need to swap quickly and rely on that swap meet mediator to hold onto your coin the whole time?

some people choose to store gold in secure vaults because it’s a physical bearer asset and so it’s easily confiscatible.

exchanges are a natural development for virtually any tradeable asset. There is money to be made making markets and matching buyers and sellers

[StarTrekDoc]

So can one have BOTH and virtual and physical cold storage though as long as the code is known? It's kind of of we do with our pictures. We store on Dropbox and have an onsite hdd.

If your protect with a strong passcode, the hard asset may be confiscated but no access unless you spill the passcode beans. Same with virtual if that goes belly up, you have a backup physical of the code.

Can one do this with Bitcoin?

[Zaphod]

some people choose to store gold in secure vaults because it’s a physical bearer asset and so it’s easily confiscatible.

exchanges are a natural development for virtually any tradeable asset. There is money to be made making markets and matching buyers and sellers

Bearer asset? Yes, just in time for xmas and die hard.

[jacoavlu]

So can one have BOTH and virtual and physical cold storage though as long as the code is known? It's kind of of we do with our pictures. We store on Dropbox and have an onsite hdd.

If your protect with a strong passcode, the hard asset may be confiscated but no access unless you spill the passcode beans. Same with virtual if that goes belly up, you have a backup physical of the code.

Can one do this with Bitcoin?

I don’t know what you mean by “virtual”

bitcoin only exists on the ledger. The ledger is just text. That’s it, nothing else. “Possession” means the ability to spend those coins (send to a different bitcoin address)

to spend coins requires signing a transaction with the valid private key (think password) for the coins involved (wallet software constructs the transaction)

private keys can exist in several forms. The most common is a 12 or 24 word seed phrase because it’s human readable and easy to backup and is compatible with virtually all different types of wallet software

”hardware wallets” are really just devices that are designed to store private keys in a secure offline manner. Better to be called “signing devices”

there are simple setups and very complex setups.

[Brains428]

So can one have BOTH and virtual and physical cold storage though as long as the code is known? It's kind of of we do with our pictures. We store on Dropbox and have an onsite hdd.

If your protect with a strong passcode, the hard asset may be confiscated but no access unless you spill the passcode beans. Same with virtual if that goes belly up, you have a backup physical of the code.

Can one do this with Bitcoin?

there are digital wallets and physical wallets, which both have unique passcodes. The passcodes are a bunch of random words. I am unaware if you can back up a digital wallet with a physical wallet.

[jacoavlu]

there are digital wallets and physical wallets, which both have unique passcodes. The passcodes are a bunch of random words. I am unaware if you can back up a digital wallet with a physical wallet.

the “wallet” concept is misleading because the coins don’t really live there.

most all wallets whether software (desktop or mobile) or hardware (offline signing device, which has its own software) are going to use a “BIP39 mnemonic” which is a unique set of words from a specific word list.

you can play around with this here https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

your word set could be imported into most any wallet software, could be used with both software and hardware wallets, could be backed up onto physical medium like a steel plate for long term storage. Could be imported into 20 different wallets at the same time. Could be written down on paper. Could even be a “brain wallet” where you don’t store the words anywhere other than by memory (not recommended). Could be split into two halves and stored separately. On and on

for serious funds to be held long term, those mnemonic words should never touch any online device. This is where hardware wallets come in. Because they can easily generate a new wallet offline

you can actually generate a secure wallet from any randomness. Coin flips. Dice rolls. You just need true randomness, high entropy. 100 dice rolls accomplishes this

[Turf Doc]

the “wallet” concept is misleading because the coins don’t really live there.

most all wallets whether software (desktop or mobile) or hardware (offline signing device, which has its own software) are going to use a “BIP39 mnemonic” which is a unique set of words from a specific word list.

you can play around with this here https://iancoleman.io/bip39/

your word set could be imported into most any wallet software, could be used with both software and hardware wallets, could be backed up onto physical medium like a steel plate for long term storage. Could be imported into 20 different wallets at the same time. Could be written down on paper. Could even be a “brain wallet” where you don’t store the words anywhere other than by memory (not recommended). Could be split into two halves and stored separately. On and on

for serious funds to be held long term, those mnemonic words should never touch any online device. This is where hardware wallets come in. Because they can easily generate a new wallet offline

you can actually generate a secure wallet from any randomness. Coin flips. Dice rolls. You just need true randomness, high entropy. 100 dice rolls accomplishes this

im curious if you have an estimation of what % of bitcoin holders understand they should/hold their coins in the manner you do. Even as someone who considers themselves pretty tech savvy it all seems pretty confusing to me

[jacoavlu]

im curious if you have an estimation of what % of bitcoin holders understand they should/hold their coins in the manner you do. Even as someone who considers themselves pretty tech savvy it all seems pretty confusing to me

of all that own bitcoin? likely a small minority

of "bitcoiners" or "bitcoin maximalists" or whatever folks might label them as, a larger percent for sure, but still a lot of people will use a custodian

most people that have been in bitcoin for a while will have multiple wallets. maybe a mobile wallet for small amounts you might use for spending, or as like an intermediate storage. then a cold storage wallet for more serious amount / long term storage

it shouldn't be easy to interact with your cold storage wallet

[StarTrekDoc]

Okay -- when we talk bitcoin and storage --- is it the bitcoin address that's being stored? And when coupled with a strong passphrase code (private key), that unlocks the address to the bitcoin key and said amount of bitcoin associated with that bitcoin address.?

So a 'wallet' can contain numerous bitcoin addresses which you establish your single (preferrably for yourself only so single phrase) phrase to unlock that amount of bitcoin keychain.

Clarify this wallet container: can you have say 5 bitcoin addresses each varying in value gathered over time
eg: 1bitcoin, 0.5 bitcoin 0.25 bitcoin ; 0.75 bitcoin; 5 bitcoin.

If I go to an exchange and put my 1 bitcoin address to it and sell .3 bitcoin and return it back to my cold storage wallet -- does the bitcoin address itself change with each transaction? It sounds like it does as it generates a new address with the updated public key change when coupled with the private key phrasecode

?: these public ledgers --- they simply are the public keychain blocks at equal x amount of bitcoin. and show the public ID of who owns how much of that public block, down to some 8 decimals places. There's no way to update that public ID ownership unless you have the public key, AND private key to unlock that part of the keychain to pass onwards. == the software publishes this to the public ledgers which reconcile it as valid and then authenticates it. = there is no central guardianship to the ledgers = no trust in single factor needed, hence the centraless concept?

[jacoavlu]

Okay -- when we talk bitcoin and storage --- is it the bitcoin address that's being stored? And when coupled with a strong passphrase code (private key), that unlocks the address to the bitcoin key and said amount of bitcoin associated with that bitcoin address.?

So a 'wallet' can contain numerous bitcoin addresses which you establish your single (preferrably for yourself only so single phrase) phrase to unlock that amount of bitcoin keychain.

Clarify this wallet container: can you have say 5 bitcoin addresses each varying in value gathered over time
eg: 1bitcoin, 0.5 bitcoin 0.25 bitcoin ; 0.75 bitcoin; 5 bitcoin.

If I go to an exchange and put my 1 bitcoin address to it and sell .3 bitcoin and return it back to my cold storage wallet -- does the bitcoin address itself change with each transaction? It sounds like it does as it generates a new address with the updated public key change when coupled with the private key phrasecode

?: these public ledgers --- they simply are the public keychain blocks at equal x amount of bitcoin. and show the public ID of who owns how much of that public block, down to some 8 decimals places. There's no way to update that public ID ownership unless you have the public key, AND private key to unlock that part of the keychain to pass onwards. == the software publishes this to the public ledgers which reconcile it as valid and then authenticates it. = there is no central guardianship to the ledgers = no trust in single factor needed, hence the centraless concept?

bitcoin is based on public key cryptography and public key - private key pairs. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-key_cryptography

basically, private key is the base foundation. It’s the secret. Public key and addresses (many many) can be derived from private key. It’s math with very very large numbers. hash functions.

there are good explanations out there, far better than I understand or could ever explain. Just like I can’t explain well the physics of MRI

Andreas has a lot of good videos

https://aantonop.com/educational-videos/#bitcoin

[jacoavlu]

here is my garage heater for the winter. Temps here in flyover country now ranging 10-40F and my garage is 75F.

at my home electric rate and current btc price it’s basically breakeven. But in that respect I’m buying btc through my electric bill at about current market, and I have a nice toasty garage

[pitt1166]

it just seems like a lot of work to understand and safely store crypto.

it seems like more of a hobby than an investment in some ways

[chocolatebear11]

Yes, the current technology to store btc is very clunky.
where I do keep seed phrases?

[GIMD]

I had my BTC on Robinhood since I'm still accumulating, but I've been thinking about transferring them to a cold wallet eventually when I reached my target # of BTC. Since Robinhood does not have a wallet, I just did an experiment sending a small fraction of BTC to a newly created Coinbase Wallet. Took me only a few minutes and works seamlessly. I think once I transfer all my BTC to Coinbase Wallet, the next step would be to transfer them to a Ledger cold wallet. If you have a safe at a bank, that would be a good place to store your seedphrase.