Bitcoin is still early

[Tim]

that’s really good

hey Tim FTX was audited, and look at all the big names on the list of associated firms lol

https://www.forbes.com/sites/javierpaz/2022/11/10/stripe-deloitte-sullivan--cromwell-are-among-53-ftx-advisors-vendors-and-bankers-weathering-exchanges-collapse/

SBF was second largest donor to Biden campaign in 2020. Will be interesting to see if he ends up in jail.

Audiited? By Biden & Co.?
lol. Advisors is different. Show the report. The last one was piece of crap.
OMG. Get out of Jail Free card might be bought and paid for. Pardon me?

[Tim]

never said you needed btc. I simply made the point that there is a value proposition, bitcoin does something unique. Maybe it doesn’t mean much to you.

can you send value to literally anyone, right now? Of course not.

ever sent an international wire? ever had funds locked up by a bank? ever had to receive payment from someone you don’t know or maybe don’t trust?

1. Sending funds to anyone in the world:
I have no need or desire personally.
2. Collecting funds:
Personally, I am willing to accept money from anyone. BTC, yen, pesos, any currency., but I will convert it to dollars.
That is my “functional currency”.

https://www.ifrs.org/issued-standards/list-of-standards/ias-21-the-effects-of-changes-in-foreign-exchange-rates/

Personally, I don’t have anyone that wants to send me value.
Business wise, functional currency is whatever you use to transact business. To ME if own a company, that is fine. But I translate it my functional currency for reporting. The global banking system can allow virtually same day movement of funds globally, but with “guarantees” and the processes.
As an individual, if the amount if big enough I will accept any value,

I don’t see BTC being a base or functional or reporting currency for any individual or business.

If it isn’t safe to keep it online, it’s basically useless except for one off individual needs. Never will be mainstream. There isn’t a sufficient need.

Btw, wire transfers or checks used to be the only way to move “value”. Problem solved, online payments work.
The problem is BTC only has value IF you can convert it to a functional currency. Vaporware dream.

[jacoavlu]

1. Sending funds to anyone in the world:
I have no need or desire personally.
2. Collecting funds:
Personally, I am willing to accept money from anyone. BTC, yen, pesos, any currency., but I will convert it to dollars.
That is my “functional currency”.
https://www.ifrs.org/issued-standard...xchange-rates/

Personally, I don’t have anyone that wants to send me value.
Business wise, functional currency is whatever you use to transact business. To ME if own a company, that is fine. But I translate it my functional currency for reporting. The global banking system can allow virtually same day movement of funds globally, but with “guarantees” and the processes.
As an individual, if the amount if big enough I will accept any value,

I don’t see BTC being a base or functional or reporting currency for any individual or business.

If it isn’t safe to keep it online, it’s basically useless except for one off individual needs. Never will be mainstream. There isn’t a sufficient need.

Btw, wire transfers or checks used to be the only way to move “value”. Problem solved, online payments work.
The problem is BTC only has value IF you can convert it to a functional currency. Vaporware dream.

not everyone has a need. but as I'm sure you understand there are a lot of people in the world that don't have same access as you and I. there are a lot of people whose native currency is trash and don't have the same property rights as you and I. bitcoin and stablecoins like Tether which can be held in self custody with nothing but a mobile phone can give such people access to and control of money which they've never had before

(note, Tether and other stablecoins are certainly susceptible to getting rugged bc there is a central point of control that can be targeted by authority)

also notable, the state is increasingly using money as a weapon. when Russia invaded Ukraine the US rugged their treasury reserves. when the Canadian gov didn't like the trucker protests they froze their bank accounts. when people donated money to the truckers the donation platform rugged those donations under pressure from the state. there is much discussion of Central Bank Digital Currencies which will be an even stronger tool for the state in surveillance and control of money

anyway, if there is no value, pure vaporware, our gov should stop spending so much time talking about it

[jacoavlu]

What’s the friends and family rate for a blind eye these days?

https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors

I guess we will find out if $39,826,856 is enough

[HikingDO]

The title of this thread hasn’t aged well.

[jacoavlu]

The title of this thread hasn’t aged well.

because it went up and then back down to the same exchange rate?

[Tim]

because it went up and then back down to the same exchange rate?

No, because “early” is undefined. I have no problem with the view of a stable currency in undeveloped countries.
However, I do think it is problematic that rich investors hold all these “investments” and translate those gain’s and pocket huge profits that should belong to whom? That is exploitation, pure and simple. Not a world view nor ethical.
Most countries simply opt to use a relatively “stable” currency, like the US$.
I prefer that individuals don’t have the opportunity to exploit under developed people and nations. Billionaires! At the expense of risk/return. I feel for all those people that actually use BTC.
You are incorrect about the government putting a stop to profiteering on all those people that actually use it. Pure greed. An investment at the expense of anyone that actually needs to use it.

[jacoavlu]

No, because “early” is undefined. I have no problem with the view of a stable currency in undeveloped countries.
However, I do think it is problematic that rich investors hold all these “investments” and translate those gain’s and pocket huge profits that should belong to whom? That is exploitation, pure and simple. Not a world view nor ethical.
Most countries simply opt to use a relatively “stable” currency, like the US$.
I prefer that individuals don’t have the opportunity to exploit under developed people and nations. Billionaires! At the expense of risk/return. I feel for all those people that actually use BTC.
You are incorrect about the government putting a stop to profiteering on all those people that actually use it. Pure greed. An investment at the expense of anyone that actually needs to use it.

sorry but this is a lot of hypocrisy. you can apply the same exact thoughts to the dollar

[xraygoggles]

https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/biggest-donors

I guess we will find out if $39,826,856 is enough

The problem that SBF has is that he committed the cardinal sin: he stole from rich people. If it was just the hoi polloi that was screwed, he would be fine. But prominent VCs and other sophisticated investors bought into the company, along with celebrities, athletes, and supermodels.

Therefore:

[Tim]

sorry but this is a lot of hypocrisy. you can apply the same exact thoughts to the dollar

BS (not personally, the statement regarding hypocrisy only).
“As of now, El Salvador is set to be the first bitcoin country and the first country to make bitcoin legal tender and treat it as a world currency and have bitcoin on their reserves," said Mallers during the 2021 Bitcoin conference in Miami.
El Salvador was a mess before, BTC had to cause significant damage.
Venezuela too.

https://decrypt.co/41254/these-10-countries-lead-world-bitcoin-adoption

The individuals damaged by BTC in these countries are a wrecked if they relied upon it. BTC in no way is suitable for functional currency. Not anyone had the undefined timeline.
Note: You have never said it was suitable for a 100% allocation nor when it might actually be suitable. You have said it is a highly speculative holding and never said it is suitable for everyone. It's volatility alone makes it unsuitable.
Yes, any country can hold reserves in whatever holder of value it chooses. BTC is not a holder of value. Period. It can have useful attributes.

[jacoavlu]

BS (not personally, the statement regarding hypocrisy only).
“As of now, El Salvador is set to be the first bitcoin country and the first country to make bitcoin legal tender and treat it as a world currency and have bitcoin on their reserves," said Mallers during the 2021 Bitcoin conference in Miami.
El Salvador was a mess before, BTC had to cause significant damage.
Venezuela too.

https://decrypt.co/41254/these-10-countries-lead-world-bitcoin-adoption

The individuals damaged by BTC in these countries are a wrecked if they relied upon it. BTC in no way is suitable for functional currency. Not anyone had the undefined timeline.
Note: You have never said it was suitable for a 100% allocation nor when it might actually be suitable. You have said it is a highly speculative holding and never said it is suitable for everyone. It's volatility alone makes it unsuitable.
Yes, any country can hold reserves in whatever holder of value it chooses. BTC is not a holder of value. Period. It can have useful attributes.

respectfully Tim you don't know if those people are damaged. I'm guessing not many El Savadorians converted to a bitcoin standard. and Venezuela lol, have you checked the inflation rate?

you seem to ignore the point that there are a lot of people in the world without access to banking services, without property rights, without computers, without stable currency

[Tim]

respectfully Tim you don't know if those people are damaged. I'm guessing not many El Savadorians converted to a bitcoin standard. and Venezuela lol, have you checked the inflation rate?

you seem to ignore the point that there are a lot of people in the world without access to banking services, without property rights, without computers, without stable currency

BTC will not solve governance and third world problems. What we are seeing is it may destroy value for those that can least afford the risk.
A couple billion worth, from "investors" gained or lost is not changing their lives.
Is the problem the "evil" US government regulating the dollar?
Or maybe look a little closer to home?
I just don't think the fundamental problem is currency. Never going to solve it that way. Just my opinion, but I don't think this is an investment that makes the world a better place.
Yes , you may make money off of it. Just not mine.

[burritos]

respectfully Tim you don't know if those people are damaged. I'm guessing not many El Savadorians converted to a bitcoin standard. and Venezuela lol, have you checked the inflation rate?

you seem to ignore the point that there are a lot of people in the world without access to banking services, without property rights, without computers, without stable currency

Chile and Argentina citizens buy dollars to combat inflation:
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/21/11306...rgentina-chile

[jacoavlu]

Chile and Argentina citizens buy dollars to combat inflation:
https://www.npr.org/2022/10/21/11306...rgentina-chile

yes, a lot of people in Latin America, Middle East, Africa want dollars but they're not easy to get and their gov doesn't exactly want them holding their wealth in dollars. This is why stablecoins like Tether are such a big deal. Stablecoin issuers may be one of the larger buyers of US Treasuries going forward.

[pitt1166]

so both FTX and FTX US filed for bankruptcy today.

i expect a huge amount of fraud and bad behavior in the crypto field to become public in the next 12 months.

this industry is rife with BS with little to no oversight.

it's going to be somewhat fun to watch, as someone on the outside. crypto isn't a huge part of the economy so i am not terribly worried about systemic risk from crypto being exposed as largely fraudulent.