Bitcoin is still early

[Nysoz]

From my outside point of view I feel like there’s way more speculators in btc than maxis (is that even the right term?).

I think the majority of people hold btc because they think it’ll go to $100k+. I also think the majority of btc is slowly being accumulated by people who think it’ll become the currency of the future.

Will people move between those 2 camps or maybe belong in both? Maybe as well.

My question for the maxi is, who/what is going to determine what the baseline value of a btc is going to be? Is 1 btc going to be able to buy a house forever no matter how much it goes up or down in fiat value? Is that house going to be a mansion in New York or a shed in Africa? Maybe a car forever, but which car and how old? Maybe break it down to sats and a coffee, but plain black coffee from a diner or fancy coffee drink?

I think one of the biggest hurdles to btc is essentially always going to be valued in fiat because there’s not going to be a consensus with what you should be able to trade/buy with it. Since I think that’s going to be true, there will always be speculators about how much fiat it’s worth.

[jacoavlu]

From my outside point of view I feel like there’s way more speculators in btc than maxis (is that even the right term?).

I think the majority of people hold btc because they think it’ll go to $100k+. I also think the majority of btc is slowly being accumulated by people who think it’ll become the currency of the future.

Will people move between those 2 camps or maybe belong in both? Maybe as well.

My question for the maxi is, who/what is going to determine what the baseline value of a btc is going to be? Is 1 btc going to be able to buy a house forever no matter how much it goes up or down in fiat value? Is that house going to be a mansion in New York or a shed in Africa? Maybe a car forever, but which car and how old? Maybe break it down to sats and a coffee, but plain black coffee from a diner or fancy coffee drink?

I think one of the biggest hurdles to btc is essentially always going to be valued in fiat because there’s not going to be a consensus with what you should be able to trade/buy with it. Since I think that’s going to be true, there will always be speculators about how much fiat it’s worth.

I don’t know what a bitcoin maxi is. I’m not interested in other crypto assets, I think bitcoin is unique, but I don’t think the dollar is going away. Does that make me a maxi or not?

You could ask all your same value questions about the dollar. The difference with bitcoin is that no one can erode the value by deciding to add trillions of new units to the denominator

[Nysoz]

That's true, but there's one set value for the dollar for now. $1 = $1 then venders can set their goods or services to whatever value they want.

With btc, it seems like everyone values it differently. Some people think it's worthless, some think it's worth $1M in the distant future. So now there's 2 variables, how much someone values btc and how much someone values their time. Until there's essentially no speculation and some set (or ballpark accepted) 'value' I think it's going to be hard to truly use as a currency or medium of trade or store of value.

[xraygoggles]

I don’t know what a bitcoin maxi is. I’m not interested in other crypto assets, I think bitcoin is unique, but I don’t think the dollar is going away. Does that make me a maxi or not?

No, then ur more reasonable.

You could ask all your same value questions about the dollar. The difference with bitcoin is that no one can erode the value by deciding to add trillions of new units to the denominator

You don't think it's possible to break down sats to centisats, millisats, microsats, nanosats, picosats, femtosats et al?

[jacoavlu]

You don't think it's possible to break down sats to centisats, millisats, microsats, nanosats, picosats, femtosats et al?

serious? You can slice a pizza in as many pieces as you want. The pizza stays the same size.

bitcoin supply is capped without a hard fork

there is no cap on the supply of dollars or other fiat currencies

[xraygoggles]

serious? You can slice a pizza in as many pieces as you want. The pizza stays the same size.

bitcoin supply is capped without a hard fork

there is no cap on the supply of dollars or other fiat currencies

But you see how it's also kinda arbitrary tho

[jacoavlu]

That's true, but there's one set value for the dollar for now. $1 = $1 then venders can set their goods or services to whatever value they want.

With btc, it seems like everyone values it differently. Some people think it's worthless, some think it's worth $1M in the distant future. So now there's 2 variables, how much someone values btc and how much someone values their time. Until there's essentially no speculation and some set (or ballpark accepted) 'value' I think it's going to be hard to truly use as a currency or medium of trade or store of value.

it’s easy to transact with bitcoin for things that are priced in dollars. There is always an exchange rate. Computers are good at doing the math at time of transaction. This is already taking place commonly.

but few are actually using bitcoin as a unit of account, which is what you’re getting at.

[FIREshrink]

No, it’s as relevant as ever today.

In 1972, when asked his thoughts about the French Revolution, Chinese prime minister Zhou Enlai responded, "Too early to tell." Although now some claim he was discussing French protests from 1968 as opposed to the 1789 Revolution.

[CordMcNally]

But you see how it's also kinda arbitrary tho

How is a finite thing being finite arbitrary?

[xraygoggles]

How is a finite thing being finite arbitrary?

ya ya i know 21 million blah blah blah

I was just saying having a limited quantity is not the end all be all - it's an overrated talking point IMO

[Tim]

How is a finite thing being finite arbitrary?

The price is infinity. So what is the difference? Still buying a loaf of bread.
More of one and less of the other. Commodities have been manipulated and currencies as well.

[jacoavlu]

ya ya i know 21 million blah blah blah

I was just saying having a limited quantity is not the end all be all - it's an overrated talking point IMO

the number is arbitrary, and the fact supply is capped isn't critically important, the important part is that the supply and issuance schedule are known and can't be changed.

[jacoavlu]

Commodities have been manipulated and currencies as well.

kinda the point. wouldnt a money that can't be manipulated - one that is incorruptible, permissionless, and outside of the control of any central authority - be good?

[Panscan]

I don’t know what a bitcoin maxi is. I’m not interested in other crypto assets, I think bitcoin is unique, but I don’t think the dollar is going away. Does that make me a maxi or not?

You could ask all your same value questions about the dollar. The difference with bitcoin is that no one can erode the value by deciding to add trillions of new units to the denominator

Yes you are a maxi

[jacoavlu]

Yes you are a maxi

wait so we have one yes vote and one no vote. you guys need to get together and decide and then kindly let me know