Bitcoin is still early

[xraygoggles]

Have you thought about spending 5k on a uranium ETF or Chinese index ETF instead?

Impeccable timing - one day before face-ripping rally.

[Dont_know_mind]

tl:dr - nobody knows.

I would say that everyone tends to be overconfident about what they know. Someone probably knows something somewhere though. But luck also plays a major role, so it can seem random.

[Dont_know_mind]

Thanks for all the info!

I’m still pondering it myself and tend to think I will stick with the LETF’s I have.

For some reason I never could quite could pull the trigger on the uranium ETF. But I have on other things so it’s ok.

Anyway, there are great investments out there other than Bitcoin and it’s fine to miss out as long as your returns are good overall. Good luck!

[Dont_know_mind]

Impeccable timing - one day before face-ripping rally.

It’s an impressive bounce. If I had cash lying around, I probably would have bought some. Unfortunately, I haven’t had excess cash lying about since COVID!

[xraygoggles]

https://news.bitcoin.com/wasabi-wallet-to-begin-censoring-coinjoin-transactions/

Anyone know what this means - I'm assuming this doesn't have any effect on the Bitcoin network. But I'm not too knowledgeable about UTXO or coin conjoin.

[NapoleanDynamite]

https://news.bitcoin.com/wasabi-wall...-transactions/

Anyone know what this means - I'm assuming this doesn't have any effect on the Bitcoin network. But I'm not too knowledgeable about UTXO or coin conjoin.

Sorry...Been on vacation.

Coinjoins are a way to "wash" your bitcoin which makes it much more difficult to track. Some of the privacy people in Bitcoin are big on either mining bitcoin or doing coinjoins so people cannot track which/how much bitcoin an address that you own might have.

Metaphorically think of it like this. The government gives you $10,000 dollars all in 100 dollar bills with specific serial numbers on them. They then allow you to spend them however you want. But they can track every dollar you have spent. Now imagine that the govt gives you the same amount of money with the same tracking numbers to you, and 100 other people that you don't know around the world. You and these other 100 people all get together and mix all of your 100 dollar bills together with all the tracking numbers. Now you each take out a random amount of $10,000 worth of 100 dollar bills. You all still have the exact same amount of money, but the govt cannot track who is spending which dollar because nobody knows. That is a "dumbed down" version of a coinjoin.

Wasabi wallet had one of the most widely used coinjoin functions. When people were donating to the Truckers in Canada, people were using it to hide their donations/receives from the BTC. It appears that Canada (and likely other govt entities) put some pressure on Wasabi so they closed their coinjoin function. It has pissed off a lot of the privacy people.

[NapoleanDynamite]

Ok, I listened to a few more podcasts on BTC and I have been reading about crypto. I admit I don't fully understand it. I will continue to try to learn more and figure it out but I have a few questions for you smart folks:

1. BTC; I don't think it is going away. I originally thought it was a "bubble" like a .com stock but it seems like it is going to be here and stay long term. Thoughts? The more I read about it the more it seems like it has staying power.

2. BTC seems like it is on "sale" currently the price is lower than it has been (down 17% in the last 6 mo). I know this is crystal ball type thinking but do you think it is on sale?

3. What is the best way to invest a small amount into BTC? 1-5k? I know this is FOMO to some extent for me (I don't fully understand it) but I now believe it will probably be here long term and worth a thought. I have not pulled the trigger on this before but I might do it. I wish vanguard had a BTC ETF.

4. What is your favorite resource for new folks.

5. What is your favorite crypto? BTC, some other flavor? Why do you love the one you love?

Any and all help appreciated. I will go back through this thread and get more info also. Thanks!

1. I agree. It's not going away. See any of the past 162 pages of this thread for some good reasons why.

2. In Bitcoin's history it has had draw downs of up to 85% from ATH's. A drawdown of 85% from 69k would put the price at approximately 12K. It is very unlikely to go that low, but this is historically the largest drops it has had. That being said, Adam Back (who has been around bitcoin longer than anyone but Satoshi) has said multiple times that he starts buying when the Bitcoin price is down greater than 35% and buys much harder when it is down >50%. If you were to do this historically, you would have done quite well. Today it is down about 39% from ATH.

3. IMO the best way to buy is with Strike. Especially if you are only going to buy 1-5K. You can keep your BTC with Strike, although I strongly recommend self custody of your BTC...no matter how small that amount is right now. Swan Bitcoin is another very good exchange that can help you set up daily, weekly, or monthly DCA buys (Strike does this too). Customer support at Swan is pretty good and you can get someone on the phone that will help you set it all up. It will likely take 2-7 days to get set up as security is paramount to these companies. If you are looking for a BTC ETF through one of your brokerage/retirement accounts, then I would recommend either just buying GBTC or MSTR. Again, that is not how I would recommend buying BTC but I guess it is better than owning zero.

4. I would start with a few books: The Bullish Case for Bitcoin by Vijay Boyapati, The Bitcoin Standard by Saifedean Ammous, The Price of Tomorrow by Jeff Booth, and Layered Money by Nik Bhatia in that order. Also, you can start with Preston Pysh's podcast on Bitcoin starting with episode 1. They are about 70 episodes in now and he keeps it mostly easy to understand and doesn't get too far in to the weeds.

5. I don't recommend other "crypto's" but if you wanted to hedge your bets you could put a little in ETH. I personally think ETH is garbage. And >99% of all other cryptos are straight up scams. So stay away from them. But it's your money...do as you want. Read up on what Lyn Alden has to say about investing in ETH and other crypto's before you do it though.

Good luck....Having zero BTC in your portfolio is not a good idea at this point in time IMO. What is the right allocation for you? I can't say. But I am confident that having none is like having a family of 4, a spouse that doesn't work, an income of >6 figures and not having any term life insurance. It just isn't wise IMO.

[xraygoggles]

Sorry...Been on vacation.

Coinjoins are a way to "wash" your bitcoin which makes it much more difficult to track. Some of the privacy people in Bitcoin are big on either mining bitcoin or doing coinjoins so people cannot track which/how much bitcoin an address that you own might have.

Metaphorically think of it like this. The government gives you $10,000 dollars all in 100 dollar bills with specific serial numbers on them. They then allow you to spend them however you want. But they can track every dollar you have spent. Now imagine that the govt gives you the same amount of money with the same tracking numbers to you, and 100 other people that you don't know around the world. You and these other 100 people all get together and mix all of your 100 dollar bills together with all the tracking numbers. Now you each take out a random amount of $10,000 worth of 100 dollar bills. You all still have the exact same amount of money, but the govt cannot track who is spending which dollar because nobody knows. That is a "dumbed down" version of a coinjoin.

Wasabi wallet had one of the most widely used coinjoin functions. When people were donating to the Truckers in Canada, people were using it to hide their donations/receives from the BTC. It appears that Canada (and likely other govt entities) put some pressure on Wasabi so they closed their coinjoin function. It has pissed off a lot of the privacy people.

Makes sense.

I'm assuming Tornado Cash laundering works the same way, but on the Ethereum network?

[NapoleanDynamite]

Makes sense.

I'm assuming Tornado Cash laundering works the same way, but on the Ethereum network?

Sounds like it based on what I just read...although I am not familiar with Tornado Cash so can't state definitively on it specifically.

Monero is still the most privacy centric cryptocurrency I am aware of...for those looking for max privacy...but it also has it's own downsides.

[NapoleanDynamite]

Quick questions for all of you that are still skeptics. When Apple integrates Bitcoin on to Apple Pay and you are able to use it to buy literally anything, anywhere what will your opinion of Bitcoin be then? What do you think will happen to the price of Bitcoin when that occurs?

Things in the rearview mirror may be closer than they appear.

[CordMcNally]

Quick questions for all of you that are still skeptics. When Apple integrates Bitcoin on to Apple Pay and you are able to use it to buy literally anything, anywhere what will your opinion of Bitcoin be then? What do you think will happen to the price of Bitcoin when that occurs?

Probably not much movement in the short term if I were to guess.

[NapoleanDynamite]

Probably not much movement in the short term if I were to guess.

You may be right....in the short term...

[Tim]

You may be right....in the short term...

Depends on how the ownership game plays out. As we see, supply chains and supplies can really get messed up easily. Where are I phones made again?

[NapoleanDynamite]

Depends on how the ownership game plays out. As we see, supply chains and supplies can really get messed up easily. Where are I phones made again?

True...If WWIII occurs and China wins...Bitcoin no longer exists. If WWIII occurs and China and the US are on opposite sides, everyone suffers significantly compared to our current quality of life. In other words, the whole world is screwed for a while if this happens. No need to worry about stocks, bonds, BTC or anything but guns and food in this scenario. Hopefully people know how to hunt and grow their own food. Although I recognize the possibility, I choose to believe that this won't happen.

[SpacemanSpiff12]

Quick questions for all of you that are still skeptics. When Apple integrates Bitcoin on to Apple Pay and you are able to use it to buy literally anything, anywhere what will your opinion of Bitcoin be then? What do you think will happen to the price of Bitcoin when that occurs?

Things in the rearview mirror may be closer than they appear.

Isn't spending Bitcoin a taxable event?

If I buy BTC at a price of 20k, it rises to 40k, and then I use 0.0001 BTC to buy a cup of coffee, I think I have to pay taxes on the gains of that 0.0001 BTC.

That's currently what would prevent me from using crypto in day-to-day situations.