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  • BIS reclassified Gold as tier 1 asset Mar 31, 2019, 48 years after Ft. Knox stopped faking it. I await the return of bell bottom jeans and perms. WRT to BTC, I missed the opportunity to lose my shirt in the dot com crash but I would sooner go to Vegas because I'm out of date. Long Tulips.

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    • Gold - Has instinct value, uses outside of jewellery, finite amount until asteroid mining occurs.

      Tesla - Stock is based o forward growth of the company. Has value in the thousands of cars it has produced and is producing. The giga-factories it is erecting.

      Paper currency - was tied to gold in the past. Now even though it has the face of dead presidents and monarchs, it is backed by the underlying governments whether ti be US or UK.

      Bitcoin - is is backed by anything other than saying JP Morgan and other hedge funds have invested in it.

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      • I completely get the hesitation and unwillingness to take Bitcoin seriously as an investment. And to be frank, it's not really an investment per se, but more of a speculative bet on the future of currency, or at the very least, the future of contactless payments.

        Having said that, I don't think there's any harm in buying a few coins, just in case.... think of it like purchasing a very deep out-of-the-money call option for 2022 - very speculative, more often than not likely to go to zero.. but if lightning strikes....

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        • If I were an evil genius, I’d anonymously invent a digital currency that doesn’t really exist. It would just be a bunch of unbacked 0s & 1s. Then I’d get everybody to buy in on it, and believe in it. It would have some sort of limit, to make it scarce. There would be a countdown of some kind.

          It would increase in value, and circulate with confidence for a good long while, to increase the faith. People would become emotional about it, and have a vested interest in it. Most importantly, powerful fat-cats and nefarious individuals would accumulate and hoard it.

          Then one day, at the end of the countdown, I’d press the magic button, and it would all vanish.... You’d log in and there would just be a chuckling skull and crossbones gif.

          It would be the greatest con ever. The greatest scam off all time. Rewarding beyond any accumulation of financial gain. A sort of Joker-like message... Sticking it to “The Man”.

          What an epic fictional story it would make.

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          • Originally posted by Jaqen Haghar MD View Post
            If I were an evil genius, I’d anonymously invent a digital currency that doesn’t really exist. It would just be a bunch of unbacked 0s & 1s. Then I’d get everybody to buy in on it, and believe in it. It would have some sort of limit, to make it scarce. There would be a countdown of some kind.

            It would increase in value, and circulate with confidence for a good long while, to increase the faith. People would become emotional about it, and have a vested interest in it. Most importantly, powerful fat-cats and nefarious individuals would accumulate and hoard it.

            Then one day, at the end of the countdown, I’d press the magic button, and it would all vanish.... You’d log in and there would just be a chuckling skull and crossbones gif.

            It would be the greatest con ever. The greatest scam off all time. Rewarding beyond any accumulation of financial gain. A sort of Joker-like message... Sticking it to “The Man”.

            What an epic fictional story it would make.
            If it were me I would definitely have this pop up when they first try to access it.

             

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            • Originally posted by Max Power View Post
              Lol... I am sure something that produces nothing, unknown origin, no control of supply, forks or spins off new coins whenever creators decide, no real purpose, no widespread acceptance/adoption will do fan-tiggidy-tastic over time. Riiight.
              I would say I'm bitcoin agnostic (neither bullish nor bearish, as I have no clue what it will do in the future), but I think you are being overly dismissive. Currency and other financial instruments do not follow the laws of physics or some other rigid rules. If more and more people/institutions adopt bitcoin or some other cryptocurrency, then it will have value, whether or not it makes logical sense to you.

              With that said, I've had a sliver of my portfolio in bitcoin (coinbase and GBTC) for the past several years, but I cannot see myself committing to a significant allocation, as I still see it as a speculative investment with too much downside risk.

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              • Originally posted by Dont_know_mind View Post
                In terms of store of value, something has value if it is universally accepted as such. There’s no physical law about it. It is a social construct.
                Originally posted by Dont_know_mind View Post
                With all the arguments about bitcoin having no value etc. The thing is, if institutions (including hedge and index funds) have to allocate as it becomes significant then that creates a demand.
                ​​​​​​​That's exactly as I see it.

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                • Originally posted by EntrepreneurMD View Post
                  BTW the way I don't do bitcoin myself, plenty of other outperformers for me. If I did, it would be one I would sell high and buy again low.
                  You have investments that have outperformed Bitcoin since it started trading, or you mean just this year?

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                  • Probably out performers based off total market or s&p

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                    • Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

                      You have investments that have outperformed Bitcoin since it started trading, or you mean just this year?
                      You must be new here...

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                      • Originally posted by xraygoggles View Post

                        You have investments that have outperformed Bitcoin since it started trading, or you mean just this year?
                        My statement wasn't clear. I don't own Bitcoin because I have multiple funds that also do very well relative to indexing. Nothing to do with performance versus Bitcoin specifically.

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                        • I'm very glad to have restarted this conversation. I always like going back on things that I wrote in the past to learn from my mistakes. I have made many. It is like Grand Rounds....you get to second guess your decisions and change your perspective. Then you get to learn. What did I do wrong last time? How could I do this differently in the future? How could I prevent errors from my past?

                          Below is another of WCI's Bitcoin posts from the past. Turns out I commented on this in 2019. This was well before I took my position, but it was on my path of learning. There appears to be more discussion on this post recently in the comments than there originally were. Please go through WCI's points and some of the others in the comments as I think many of them are quite good points. However, some of them are clearly incorrect or have at least been invalidated. Very interesting.

                          Should you invest in Bitcoin now that it's 83% off? Nope. It's still just as dumb of an investment as it was at its peak and before its rise.



                          As a side note, in watching some of the buy/sell orders come in for Bitcoin in real time, the buy sell ratio has recently changed from 70/30 to 60/40 to 50/50 right now. Interesting math to watch if you are into this sort of thing. Not sure what this will mean for near term price, but it would seem to suggest a price drop to me even though many are predicting it to break through 20K with a force. Either way, I will be holding my position and continuing to DCA for the foreseeable future.

                          Good luck my friends,

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                          • Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                            all we ever do is talk about the price of bitcoin and post some links to books and videos and articles

                            we could try to have meaningful discussion, perhaps you could give a top one or three reasons why you personally believe bitcoin has / will have true value
                            you never replied

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                            • Originally posted by jacoavlu View Post

                              you never replied
                              Not sure if you are talking to me on this one, but I have done this repeatedly. I have also referenced books, papers, and significant people to learn from in these threads. Do your own research as I can't learn it for you. I have also discussed in multiple threads why BTC has value. To do so again would just be repeating what I have already stated and others have reinforced.

                              It is difficult to argue against a "lazy" argument. It is a valid argument and one that no one will win. If people want to just be "lazy" and put money into an index fund or 4 and never look at it again, then so be it. Don't lie to yourself though. There is risk.

                              The biggest risk you take by doing so is if inflation outpaces gains from said funds, you lose purchasing power. I realize this is unlikely, but it is not out of the realm of possibility. To ignore this possibility is unwise for a high net worth individual. But as I previously stated, this is an argument that can't be "won". So if people don't want to put any time into learning, then don't do it. When you change your mind, you can go back to these threads and learn for yourself.

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                              • Originally posted by NapoleanDynamite View Post

                                Not sure if you are talking to me on this one,
                                yes I am talking to you because I think we should actually talk about bitcoin, not just the price of bitcoin or people who are into bitcoin, I think it would be a more valuable discussion

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