What to do with spousal income?

[Panscan]

I'm not sure what is biased about recognizing that both men and women can make a lot of money and be in situations where they make a disparate amount compared to their spouse. Very interesting crowd.

So it's the patriarchy that makes someone struggle to approach their breadwinning spouse about how to do their job? No id call that logic. Just like the breadwinner might struggle to approach their homemaking spouse about how to do their job.... Again there's no bias here it's all just logical consistency.

[spotty_dog]

AR wrote:

spotty_dog wrote:

Panscan wrote:

Again, I have no idea how systemic bias is involved. Repeat after me, the concept is no different regardless of genders involved. When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

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LOL. The fun thing about being a grumpy late-thirties old lady is that I don’t really GAF what you fail to comprehend. It’s there and it’s as plain as the nose on your face, and if you don’t see it that’s your problem and a product of your worldview. It’s cool though. There’s plenty of you blindered single-track mind fellas out there, don’t feel alone!

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Part of the problem is that you’re just as “single-track” minded as you think he is.  And you’re not going to see your bias for the same reason you think he can’t see his.  It’s a bit of a conundrum.  And resolving it is generally going to take more than two people posting on a message board.  It’s not impossible, but it’s not likely either.

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Yeeahh...and no. I know that I have a completely different perspective than most of y'all about the value that *high-earning medical-career family-supporters who sometimes duck out on their household responsibilities* add to a family (avoiding trigger words here.) Nearly 15 years of that above-mentioned group, of seeing marriages succeed and fail, and seeing non-physician or lower-earning physician-spouses feeling more or less validated by their position in the family, will do that. And then, there's the whole thing of living nearly 40 years in a female body and finally starting to see the patterns inherent in society. (I laugh at 20-year-old me who thought that because I was a student in a male-dominated field, in company with 50% of my class as women, that feminism wasn't a thing.)

I absolutely agree that there's not a lot of hope for getting people with disparate lived experience to see perfectly eye to eye. I wouldn't say that's my purpose in sharing my own perspective here. That said, I feel like there's a little bit of hope in making sure that the undervalued worldview occasionally makes itself known to exist -- known to even *have* a perspective at all (which seems especially important in the face of evidence that this particular perspective has not been considered at all.) That's just where I'm coming from.

FTR, I've lived my entire married life under the conviction that my spouse works his ****************** off for the benefit of our family, and that we all reap that reward, and that part of reaping that reward is respecting the sacrifice by keeping the rest of our financial expectations in check and running the cost/benefit analysis on practically everything. And this works for us. But it works because it's a choice on my part, as a full-grown woman and a partner in this endeavor. Anything less would be worth calling out as BS, as I've done here.

...I remember a gal we heard from in the medspouse forums, who was so overwhelmed with how to support her wife, who was really kind of crap at getting her charting done and kept getting taken aside by her boss and reprimanded. They were in a tough place financially,  all while the at-home spouse was struggling to contribute non-financially to the household and not really trying to criticize her wife's professional choices but also wanting to be able to give useful advice; but finding it wasn't welcome because her wife was high-earning and she was unemployed at the time. Despite that they were both women, I call that an offshoot of patriarchy. Of societal roles predicated on entrenched male-female dynamics. If you call it something else, fight me. Or give me your opinion in a measured way, that's cool too.

[AR]

spotty_dog wrote:

Panscan wrote:

Again, I have no idea how systemic bias is involved. Repeat after me, the concept is no different regardless of genders involved. When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

Click to expand…

LOL. The fun thing about being a grumpy late-thirties old lady is that I don’t really GAF what you fail to comprehend. It’s there and it’s as plain as the nose on your face, and if you don’t see it that’s your problem and a product of your worldview. It’s cool though. There’s plenty of you blindered single-track mind fellas out there, don’t feel alone!

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Part of the problem is that you're just as "single-track" minded as you think he is.  And you're not going to see your bias for the same reason you think he can't see his.  It's a bit of a conundrum.  And resolving it is generally going to take more than two people posting on a message board.  It's not impossible, but it's not likely either.

[spotty_dog]

Panscan wrote:

Again, I have no idea how systemic bias is involved. Repeat after me, the concept is no different regardless of genders involved. When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

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LOL. The fun thing about being a grumpy late-thirties old lady is that I don't really GAF what you fail to comprehend. It's there and it's as plain as the nose on your face, and if you don't see it that's your problem and a product of your worldview. It's cool though. There's plenty of you blindered single-track mind fellas out there, don't feel alone!

[Tim]

“Rarely does someone suggest buying, “unless one is planning on living there and settled in employment wise.
Not unique to WCI.

[Lordosis]

@anne. I meant that as a joke/exaggeration. This seems to be a very pro rent group. Rarely does someone suggest buying. Hard to come across in text.

[Panscan]

How in the world are these discussions indicative of a patriarchy when everyone says the decision is no different depending on spouses gender? It could be a high earning woman and a low earning man, vice versa, two women, two men. It doesn't matter.

If anything it's sexist to assume the high earner is a guy. I love when the PC types blatantly reinforce the stereotypes they claim to dislike.

Again, I have no idea how systemic bias is involved. Repeat after me, the concept is no different regardless of genders involved. When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[Larry Ragman]

When my wife went back to work we had a conversation about the issue of ours and hers. Intellectually she believes its all ours regardless of earner. Emotionally she wanted some of her own money. I tried explaining she should put it all in her 401K to minimize total taxes. I only convinced her when we changed the framework. Her paycheck now goes to the 401K which reduces the overall tax burden. She claims an equivalent amount from our account to. spend as she desires. Interestingly, she doesn’t spend that much on herself

[CM]

Lordosis wrote:

Tim wrote:

Yes, but anyone likes having funds to spend on just themselves without a care in the world.

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I wish I had such an allowance.

 

I am in the our money camp.  I make a lot more then my wife but I do not consider any part of that money specifically for me.   She does not consider the money she makes for her.  It all goes to the same checking account and then we siphon off the savings and spend what we want.  Usually there is more to save after that.

I do not buy very much without thinking things through and usually my wife is the one who talks me into spending money on myself.  My wife is the same way.

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My house as well, to the letter.

[spotty_dog]

AR wrote:

That probably also happens here at WCI quite a bit I’m sure.

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Maybe a bit. :lol:

[Anne]

Lordosis wrote:

That probably also happens here at WCI quite a bit I’m sure.
Rent until you are financially independent.
3 fund portfolio
Be insured with the right kind of insurance
DIY investing

I am sure there are many more repeated themes.

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Who says rent until you are financially independent?

[Lordosis]

That probably also happens here at WCI quite a bit I’m sure.
Rent until you are financially independent.
3 fund portfolio
Be insured with the right kind of insurance
DIY investing

I am sure there are many more repeated themes.

[AR]

spotty_dog wrote:

That’s a fascinating question that displays an utter lack of understanding of the context of the term. I mean, it’s not a problem, I don’t always understand the jargon inherent to groups I don’t belong to either! And it’s generally polite NOT to use jargon out of context, so I’ll try to refrain in the future.

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Oh, I think I understand it.  Of course, if you would like to clear it up to improve my understanding, I'm all ears.

I think the real problem might be is that sometimes when you're in a group of very like-minded individuals as you describe, you develop a perspective with significant bias which gets reinforced by the group because everyone has a shared common experience.   Such groups certainly have value, but the problem is that looking at certain issues from a different perspective becomes nearly impossible.

That probably also happens here at WCI quite a bit I'm sure.

[spotty_dog]

AR wrote:

spotty_dog wrote:

Yeppers. In my naive youth I would never have believed in the “patriarchy”, but this conversation is just dripping with it. Like calling someone a “male nurse”, discussing whether the at-home spouse ought to work for pay, or whether their work will fail to cover expenses like work clothing and daycare and tax burdens that are high because of the primary earner’s high taxable income, has its roots in that whole systemic bias, I’m sorry to say. And I do apologize, that “dawkter” spelling is an old habit. I’ve been chatting for over a decade with a group of physician spouses, a group to which most have cleaved while our medically-entrenched significant others were mere residents but still quite full of themselves because of their profession. In that group we frequently distinguish between “doctor” as a profession and/or honorific, and “dawkter” as a loved one who sometimes gets too big for his or her britches. I’m also very sorry for the expletive! Promise I’m not a cusser, but dang. Sometimes a phrase just fits, LOL. 

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Out of curiosity what was the spouse equivalent of “dawkter” in your chat group?  Asking for a friend.

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That's a fascinating question that displays an utter lack of understanding of the context of the term. I mean, it's not a problem, I don't always understand the jargon inherent to groups I don't belong to either! And it's generally polite NOT to use jargon out of context, so I'll try to refrain in the future.

[AR]

spotty_dog wrote:

Yeppers. In my naive youth I would never have believed in the “patriarchy”, but this conversation is just dripping with it. Like calling someone a “male nurse”, discussing whether the at-home spouse ought to work for pay, or whether their work will fail to cover expenses like work clothing and daycare and tax burdens that are high because of the primary earner’s high taxable income, has its roots in that whole systemic bias, I’m sorry to say. And I do apologize, that “dawkter” spelling is an old habit. I’ve been chatting for over a decade with a group of physician spouses, a group to which most have cleaved while our medically-entrenched significant others were mere residents but still quite full of themselves because of their profession. In that group we frequently distinguish between “doctor” as a profession and/or honorific, and “dawkter” as a loved one who sometimes gets too big for his or her britches. I’m also very sorry for the expletive! Promise I’m not a cusser, but dang. Sometimes a phrase just fits, LOL.

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Out of curiosity what was the spouse equivalent of "dawkter" in your chat group?  Asking for a friend.