Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Why are Insurance Salesmen allowed again?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Peds
    replied




    WCI has said it, and I respect it, that the goal is not to ban people, but rather certain behavior.
    Click to expand...


    another thought....why not make them actually answer the questions asked/prove their statements with actual data before they are allowed to progress and respond to anything else.....?

    Leave a comment:

  • Hober Mallow
    Member

  • Hober Mallow
    replied
    To be clear, my earlier post was purely in jest.  I don't think the insurance salesmen should be banned.  I agree with Hank's post above - it's far better for their potential clients to counter the salesman's arguments than to ban them.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hank
    replied
    Look at the replies to WCI's blog posts on whole life insurance and its many variants.  To some extent, it's useful to innoculate financial newbies to the arguments made in favor of permanent life insurance and the often mathematically superior arguments against such products.  Pretending that whole life doesn't exist or barring discussion of it entirely could lead to it being forbidden fruit.  Oh, the guys over at Bogleheads and WCI don't want you to know what a great deal it really is to "Bank on Yourself" (or some other inane argument).

    If you or your parents bought a policy a long time ago, run the numbers to see if you should keep it.  Despite the sunk cost, it might be acceptable to keep a policy going forward.

    If you already have achieved financial independence and have an estate worth over $22M, you could conceivable benefit from an ILIT.

    If you don't fall into either of the above situations, the person most likely to benefit is the the salesman selling the policy, not the person buying it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peds
    replied







    If someone has a financial conflict of interest and fails to disclose it, that would be a violation of forum rule #2.  If you see this sort of thing, please bring it to the attention of a moderator.
    Click to expand…


    Yeah, I’m saying that even if they do disclose it, whether they mean to or not, it’s not a direct selling of their product to sing its praises.

    I think we’re just a bit wary of stomping out opposing viewpoints if they’re not really causing overt harm or aren’t really disrespectful.  IDK if one can really call it a conflict of interest if they’re not directly trying to sell them a policy…however, on the other hand, I don’t mean to liken it to religion like they’ve done over the past couple days, but say you’ve got a forum for Religion A and some people keep posting that they should join Religion B without otherwise being insulting or directly soliciting conversion, you’d still probably want those people out of your sandbox.  Or Republicans in a Democrats’ forum, etc…but this is the kind of slippery slope that people who shouldn’t be listened to use to make people listen.  “Can’t I speak my opinion?  Don’t I have freedom of speech?”  Well, we’re not the government, so the whole “Congress shall make no law” etc thing doesn’t apply, and we probably could ban them if we feel like it.

    However *maybe* it’s possible that there might be *one* person for whom it *might* be the best use of their extra money who hasn’t already taken all their tax advantages, has some extra fixed-income portfolio space, is ineligible for decent term insurance, has a >$22M estate…

    I mean, honestly, I’m within my right to shut this thread down based on rules 1 and 7:
    1. Forum participants are expected to behave appropriately as though you were speaking with others on the forum face to face in polite company with small children present. If you wouldn’t say it in my living room with my kids playing on the floor, you shouldn’t type it here. Pornography, profanity, belittling, ad hominem attacks, trolling, spamming, sock puppeting, excessive abrasiveness, publicly complaining about forum moderation policies, threatening legal action against forum owners/members, and other rude behavior is not permitted. It is okay to disagree, but focus your disagreement on the ideas presented, not the person presenting them. If it is obvious you will never convince someone with whom you are arguing, agree to disagree before the argument becomes personal.

    7. Moderation policies are not up for public debate. If you have an issue with a step a moderator took, PM that moderator or another one and it will be reviewed. Do not re-post a moderated thread. Do not start a thread complaining about moderator actions or policies. Remember that moderators are volunteers and their decisions, while not necessarily always final, will generally be supported by other moderators and by the owners of this site. Mostly because we don’t want to do all the moderating ourselves.

    …but then I’m like that jerk cop who goes to try arrest the people who are breaking some kind of law just to break it, like trying to bust people for having a J at a reggae concert when the whole place reeks of chronic.  I guess what I’m saying is that if people are saying things we think no one wants to hear, are we just shutting down others’ opinions and turning our own minds off to the possibility of there being something we don’t know?

    I got some email updates on the “6 Reasons Not to Buy Life Insurance for Your Kids” and “What You Need to Know about Whole Life Insurance” posts recently from people who don’t quit.  Here’s what Jim said: “I don’t have a problem with a commissioned insurance agent selling insurance products. What I have a problem with is them pretending they’re providing unbiased advice while selling said products.”  At the same time, you see a couple instances where he notes that there are some certain circumstances in which cash-value life insurance policies can be fairly decent.

    So I think that’s why we don’t unilaterally ban them…until they get annoying and break other rules too, since they p much always do, and then we take ’em out.
    Click to expand...


    To be fair I'm not c/o a moderators action or policy. I just wanted you guys to weigh in on the forum policy and reasoning......mr jerk cop sir (lol couldn't help myself).

     

    Leave a comment:


  • DMFA
    replied




    If someone has a financial conflict of interest and fails to disclose it, that would be a violation of forum rule #2.  If you see this sort of thing, please bring it to the attention of a moderator.
    Click to expand...


    Yeah, I'm saying that even if they do disclose it, whether they mean to or not, it's not a direct selling of their product to sing its praises.

    I think we're just a bit wary of stomping out opposing viewpoints if they're not really causing overt harm or aren't really disrespectful.  IDK if one can really call it a conflict of interest if they're not directly trying to sell them a policy...however, on the other hand, I don't mean to liken it to religion like they've done over the past couple days, but say you've got a forum for Religion A and some people keep posting that they should join Religion B without otherwise being insulting or directly soliciting conversion, you'd still probably want those people out of your sandbox.  Or Republicans in a Democrats' forum, etc...but this is the kind of slippery slope that people who shouldn't be listened to use to make people listen.  "Can't I speak my opinion?  Don't I have freedom of speech?"  Well, we're not the government, so the whole "Congress shall make no law" etc thing doesn't apply, and we probably could ban them if we feel like it.

    However *maybe* it's possible that there might be *one* person for whom it *might* be the best use of their extra money who hasn't already taken all their tax advantages, has some extra fixed-income portfolio space, is ineligible for decent term insurance, has a >$22M estate...

    I mean, honestly, I'm within my right to shut this thread down based on rules 1 and 7:
    1. Forum participants are expected to behave appropriately as though you were speaking with others on the forum face to face in polite company with small children present. If you wouldn’t say it in my living room with my kids playing on the floor, you shouldn’t type it here. Pornography, profanity, belittling, ad hominem attacks, trolling, spamming, sock puppeting, excessive abrasiveness, publicly complaining about forum moderation policies, threatening legal action against forum owners/members, and other rude behavior is not permitted. It is okay to disagree, but focus your disagreement on the ideas presented, not the person presenting them. If it is obvious you will never convince someone with whom you are arguing, agree to disagree before the argument becomes personal.

    7. Moderation policies are not up for public debate. If you have an issue with a step a moderator took, PM that moderator or another one and it will be reviewed. Do not re-post a moderated thread. Do not start a thread complaining about moderator actions or policies. Remember that moderators are volunteers and their decisions, while not necessarily always final, will generally be supported by other moderators and by the owners of this site. Mostly because we don’t want to do all the moderating ourselves.

    ...but then I'm like that jerk cop who goes to try arrest the people who are breaking some kind of law just to break it, like trying to bust people for having a J at a reggae concert when the whole place reeks of chronic.  I guess what I'm saying is that if people are saying things we think no one wants to hear, are we just shutting down others' opinions and turning our own minds off to the possibility of there being something we don't know?

    I got some email updates on the "6 Reasons Not to Buy Life Insurance for Your Kids" and "What You Need to Know about Whole Life Insurance" posts recently from people who don't quit.  Here's what Jim said: "I don’t have a problem with a commissioned insurance agent selling insurance products. What I have a problem with is them pretending they’re providing unbiased advice while selling said products."  At the same time, you see a couple instances where he notes that there are some certain circumstances in which cash-value life insurance policies can be fairly decent.

    So I think that's why we don't unilaterally ban them...until they get annoying and break other rules too, since they p much always do, and then we take 'em out.

    Leave a comment:

  • jacoavlu
    Physician

  • jacoavlu
    replied
    WCI has said it, and I respect it, that the goal is not to ban people, but rather certain behavior.

    Leave a comment:


  • Hank
    replied
    If someone has a financial conflict of interest and fails to disclose it, that would be a violation of forum rule #2.  If you see this sort of thing, please bring it to the attention of a moderator.

    Leave a comment:

  • Hober Mallow
    Member

  • Hober Mallow
    replied
    WCI should require a CAPTCHA to post on the forum.
    Jane is a third-year resident.  She has no dependents, is unmarried, and no one else depends on her income.  How much whole-life insurance should she buy?

    Any answer greater than zero and a user gets perma-banned.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peds
    replied




    aren’t they the ones footing the bill for this place?

     
    Click to expand...


    the advertisers are vetted. these people are not.

    Leave a comment:


  • Peds
    replied





    i dont have a solution, i am not a moderator. 
    Click to expand…


    really? that’s it?
    Click to expand...


    i mean......i dont think this site was intended as a place for insurance salespeople to present straw man arguments against physicians. i can get enough of that at work.

    the WCI has like a 6 part series about the issues with whole life. why should insurance salesmen be allowed to rehash their incorrect views again?

    so for the future, maybe the mods can end those threads or remove those people sooner.

     

    Leave a comment:

  • jacoavlu
    Physician

  • jacoavlu
    replied


    i dont have a solution, i am not a moderator.
    Click to expand...


    really? that's it?

    Leave a comment:

  • q-school
    Member

  • q-school
    replied
    aren't they the ones footing the bill for this place?

     

    Leave a comment:


  • AlexxT
    replied




    do you mean all insurance salesmen?
    Click to expand...


    No, no!  My apologies!  I corrected my above post to say "whole life/ cash value" insurance salesmen.

    I think the disability and term life agents who post here are absolutely wonderful, and I recommend them wholeheartedly.  I continue to learn a lot from them, and they seem to have our best interests in mind.

    Thanks for pointing out my error.

    I'm sure @peds agrees. (?)

    Leave a comment:


  • Peds
    replied




     

    Maybe I’m not a doctor, but I play one on the internet. ?
    Click to expand...


    one day @AlexxT....one day.

     

    Leave a comment:


  • Peds
    replied




    clarify: do you mean all insurance salesmen? Including those that sell disability insurance, long term care insurance? Because there are “insurance salesmen” here that provide expertise and valuable advice here at times for those products.

    what would be your solution to the problem?
    Click to expand...


    clearly not. its pretty obvious i think.

    i dont have a solution, i am not a moderator.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X